Question on Alk / Calc ballance

chk4tix · Sep 24, 2017

I have a question but wanted to give a little background before I ask the question.

I have a 110g tank that for the most part is stable with alk 9dKh, calc 420ppm, and mag at 1350. These levels are based off of what I read years ago that you should have balanced alk/calc to maintain a tank.
Over the past three years I have had limited success growing SPS, LPS, etc. in my tank since moving to TX. Currently, I have a few encrusting monties and some zoo's that I have had friom before the move, but they dont really thrive or grow. When I add new corals they unfortunately slowly die, so I havent added anything new for about 6 months. I have tried many things over the past 3 years, with no real success. My tank grows cloralline algae like crazy and even bought a sea urchin to try to keep it at bay, but SPS struggles in my tank.

So back to my question, I was researching Triton testing and was watching a BRStv video that indicated they are running the tank in quest at alk 7dKh and 440ppm calc. (which to me doesnt seem balanced but I in no way claim to be a chemist). This made me question what I have been running my tank at. Everything I have read in the past gives a wide range of possible alk/calc numbers and doeesnt really give recommendations other thank it should be in a 'range', so I am really confused now. I havent had any obvious success in the last few years and apparently I'm missing something here, should I be trying to hit lower dKh's with my calc numbers or should I be raising my calc? Should it be balanced or does that even matter?

Thanks

Randy Holmes-Farley · Sep 24, 2017

I don't personally think that balance between calcium and alkalinity is important and shouldn't be a goal.

Corals are quite sensitive to alkalinity because they are often struggling to get enough. Calcium, on the other hand, seems plentiful to corals and they really don't seem to care as long as the water isn't deficient in calcium.

So if the alkalinity is, say, 8 dKH, corals don't seem to care if the calcium is 410 ppm, 450 ppm or 550 ppm.

But they do (often) very much care if, when the calcium is 420 ppm, whether alkalinity is 6 dKH, 8 dKH or 13 dKH.

That all said, I don't see a reason to think your issues with SPS corals stem from the values for calcium, alkalinity, or magnesium.

chk4tix · Sep 24, 2017

Thank you Sir.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Sep 25, 2017

You're welcome.

Happy Reefing.

zsuzsu · Sep 25, 2017

chk4tix said:
I have a question but wanted to give a little background before I ask the question.

I have a 110g tank that for the most part is stable with alk 9dKh, calc 420ppm, and mag at 1350. These levels are based off of what I read years ago that you should have balanced alk/calc to maintain a tank.
Over the past three years I have had limited success growing SPS, LPS, etc. in my tank since moving to TX. Currently, I have a few encrusting monties and some zoo's that I have had friom before the move, but they dont really thrive or grow. When I add new corals they unfortunately slowly die, so I havent added anything new for about 6 months. I have tried many things over the past 3 years, with no real success. My tank grows cloralline algae like crazy and even bought a sea urchin to try to keep it at bay, but SPS struggles in my tank.

So back to my question, I was researching Triton testing and was watching a BRStv video that indicated they are running the tank in quest at alk 7dKh and 440ppm calc. (which to me doesnt seem balanced but I in no way claim to be a chemist). This made me question what I have been running my tank at. Everything I have read in the past gives a wide range of possible alk/calc numbers and doeesnt really give recommendations other thank it should be in a 'range', so I am really confused now. I havent had any obvious success in the last few years and apparently I'm missing something here, should I be trying to hit lower dKh's with my calc numbers or should I be raising my calc? Should it be balanced or does that even matter?

Thanks

you did not mention any other parameters, or type of or age of your light source.

chk4tix · Sep 25, 2017

zsuzsu said:
you did not mention any other parameters, or type of or age of your light source.

Here are the full details of my tank:
Tank: 110g Artisan II
Lights: Radian G3 Pro x 2 with a WWC AB+ schedule maxing out at 65% with photo period of 8hrs
Flow: MP40qd x 2 on opposite sides of the tank on ReefCrest w/75% max
Return: Jebao DCP-10000 pump running @ 40%
Filtration: Vertex Omega 180 skimmer, LR, and micro algae.
Top off water: 5-stage RO/DI with build in TDI meter on output.
Salt Mix: Instant Ocean
Water changes: 12g change per month
Dosing: Alk / Calc via Apex DOS
System controller: Apex
Todays levels:
Alk = 8.9 dKh (Salfert)
Calc = 420ppm (API)
Mag = 1350 (Salfert)
Nitrates = 0 (Hanna)
Ammonia = 0 (Salfert)
Copper = 0 (Salfert)

Here here are some quick photos of my tank (sorry iPhone quality)

zsuzsu · Sep 26, 2017

Well you definitely have the goods, I used to run very low no3,po4. But have since elevated n03 around 7-10ppm and po4 at.o2 ish and both reefs responded with better color and far better growth. Both reefs are carbon dosed (1 full zeovit, 1 Red Sea program) and I use t5 lighting with radions to supplement the t5s (just the blue channels) since switching from radion with t5 supplement to t5 with radion supplement the reefs started to thrive. Then I elevated po4 and n03 both reefs really took off. I will try bringing the nutrients down once the reefs grow in. But for now everything is jammin pretty nice. Try elevating p04&n03 for awhile its working here. Good luck...zsu

roberthu526 · Sep 26, 2017

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
I don't personally think that balance between calcium and alkalinity is important and shouldn't be a goal.

Corals are quite sensitive to alkalinity because they are often struggling to get enough. Calcium, on the other hand, seems plentiful to corals and they really don't seem to care as long as the water isn't deficient in calcium.

So if the alkalinity is, say, 8 dKH, corals don't seem to care if the calcium is 410 ppm, 450 ppm or 550 ppm.

But they do (often) very much care if, when the calcium is 420 ppm, whether alkalinity is 6 dKH, 8 dKH or 13 dKH.

That all said, I don't see a reason to think your issues with SPS corals stem from the values for calcium, alkalinity, or magnesium.

I am not sure I understand it fully. Are you saying that there is an optimal Alkalinity around 8 but calcium level can swing quite a bit without much issue? I ask because my current tank is at 6.44 alkalinity and 410 calcium. My ph is constantly above 8.1 mainly because I use CO2 scrubber. I tried to does two part but the BRS soda ash precipitates as soon as it hits the water so I stopped. My tank I about two years old and it is 125 G. I am currently dosing NOPOX and running GFO although I am not sure if these play a role in my low alkalinity issue. Could you give me some suggestion on raising alkalinity? Thank you.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Sep 27, 2017

roberthu526 said:
I am not sure I understand it fully. Are you saying that there is an optimal Alkalinity around 8 but calcium level can swing quite a bit without much issue? I ask because my current tank is at 6.44 alkalinity and 410 calcium. My ph is constantly above 8.1 mainly because I use CO2 scrubber. I tried to does two part but the BRS soda ash precipitates as soon as it hits the water so I stopped. My tank I about two years old and it is 125 G. I am currently dosing NOPOX and running GFO although I am not sure if these play a role in my low alkalinity issue. Could you give me some suggestion on raising alkalinity? Thank you.

Basically, yes. The exact calcium value does not seem to be important to corals.

The "precipitate" you saw was likely the normal precipitation of magnesium hydroxide due tot he locally high pH were it was added, which redissolves as it mixes in and is not a concern.

What is that Precipitate in My Reef Aquarium? by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-07/rhf/index.htm

Figure 3. The transient cloud of magnesium hydroxide that forms when high pH additives are added. In this case, the alkalinity portion of B-ionic was added to a fairly still portion of one of my reef aquaria.

roberthu526 · Sep 27, 2017

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
Basically, yes. The exact calcium value does not seem to be important to corals.

The "precipitate" you saw was likely the normal precipitation of magnesium hydroxide due tot he locally high pH were it was added, which redissolves as it mixes in and is not a concern.

What is that Precipitate in My Reef Aquarium? by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-07/rhf/index.htm

Figure 3. The transient cloud of magnesium hydroxide that forms when high pH additives are added. In this case, the alkalinity portion of B-ionic was added to a fairly still portion of one of my reef aquaria.

Thank you. It makes sense. I guess this is why it is recommended to dose in a high flow area, ideally directly into the powerheads.