Question on internal parasites

[Breakthecycle2]

I had gotten a Katherines Fairy wrasse and put him in QT. I noticed after a few days he was poop was white and stringy. Needless to say, before I knew it, he was already dead. My question is I had previously treated QT tank with prazi. Isn't prazi supposed to also be a dewormer?

Also, is there some sort of bath/dip solution to use when acclimating fish that is supposed to remove parasites? I think it's a two part solution. One is blue and other green. Am I crazy? Anyone know what it is called?

 

[melypr1985]

Prazi does treat SOME internal parasites, but not all.

Metronidazole: Treats internal parasites (worms), Brooklynella; possibly Uronema marinum.

How To Treat - Metro can be found as a stand-alone drug (ex. Metro+, Seachem MetroPlex) or incorporated into a multi-purpose medication (ex.API General Cure). It is best to soak it in the fish’s food; however it can also be dosed directly into a quarantine tank. Use until symptoms (white stringy poop) are gone.

Whether or not metro is “reef safe” is a topic for debate. The general consensus is that while soaking it in fish food IS “reef safe,” dosing it directly into the water column IS NOT and should only be done in quarantine.

Pros - Can be soaked in fish food, making it (somewhat) reef safe.

Cons/Side Effects - In my experience, certain fish seem to have an adverse reaction to it. But these are in the minority.

 

[Breakthecycle2]

Any idea how you treat with metroplex? Do you know if you just dose the whole tank and for how long?

 

[melypr1985]

From the Seachem website:

Metroplex- Use 1-2 measures (included) for every 40 L (10 US gallons). Repeat every 2 days for up to 3 weeks or until symptoms disappear. Turn off UV, ozone, and chemical filtration. To feed, blend 1 measure with about 1 tablespoon of frozen food paste. To minimize loss during feeding use with Focus™. To enhance palatability use withGarlicGuard™ or Entice™. Food may be refrozen.

 

[Breakthecycle2]

Thank you

 

[Breakthecycle2]

Oh one more thing. Can I use this as well as coppersafe together?

 

[melypr1985]

Oh one more thing. Can I use this as well as coppersafe together?

I wouldn't.

 

[Humblefish]

I copy & paste this from another thread I just answered about this particular issue...

OK here's the deal with internal parasites/intestinal worms. Praziquantel (i.e. Prazipro) eradicates most strains. However, there are a few which are prazi resistant and for these you must use metronidazole (exs. Metro-MS, Seachem Metroplex). IME; metronidazole is actually superior when it comes to treating intestinal worms because it covers more strains, but you still have to use prazi to kill gill flukes.

So what I've started doing in QT is treating with "API General Cure", which is a prazi/metro mix, instead of using Prazipro. And being API General Cure is in powder form there is less chance of interaction issues if you have to mix it with another med (like copper) than there is when mixing with liquid Prazipro. Prazipro contains Oxybispropanol, a solubilizing agent, and mixing this with certain other meds can lead to a bacterial bloom which can starve all oxygen out of the water.

 

[Triggreef]

I copy & paste this from another thread I just answered about this particular issue...

OK here's the deal with internal parasites/intestinal worms. Praziquantel (i.e. Prazipro) eradicates most strains. However, there are a few which are prazi resistant and for these you must use metronidazole (exs. Metro-MS, Seachem Metroplex). IME; metronidazole is actually superior when it comes to treating intestinal worms because it covers more strains, but you still have to use prazi to kill gill flukes.

So what I've started doing in QT is treating with "API General Cure", which is a prazi/metro mix, instead of using Prazipro. And being API General Cure is in powder form there is less chance of interaction issues if you have to mix it with another med (like copper) than there is when mixing with liquid Prazipro. Prazipro contains Oxybispropanol, a solubilizing agent, and mixing this with certain other meds can lead to a bacterial bloom which can starve all oxygen out of the water.

I've been so wrapped up in zoa collecting I've been staying away from the quarantine threads lately. This is really good info. I believe I'll now be changing my own qt routine once again.

So humble is this how you came up with a 10 day qt you were talking about?? I don't know if I missed you putting out the info on that

 

[Breakthecycle2]

I copy & paste this from another thread I just answered about this particular issue...

OK here's the deal with internal parasites/intestinal worms. Praziquantel (i.e. Prazipro) eradicates most strains. However, there are a few which are prazi resistant and for these you must use metronidazole (exs. Metro-MS, Seachem Metroplex). IME; metronidazole is actually superior when it comes to treating intestinal worms because it covers more strains, but you still have to use prazi to kill gill flukes.

So what I've started doing in QT is treating with "API General Cure", which is a prazi/metro mix, instead of using Prazipro. And being API General Cure is in powder form there is less chance of interaction issues if you have to mix it with another med (like copper) than there is when mixing with liquid Prazipro. Prazipro contains Oxybispropanol, a solubilizing agent, and mixing this with certain other meds can lead to a bacterial bloom which can starve all oxygen out of the water.

This is my problem in my qt tank. I made another thread about cleaning it.

 

[Humblefish]

So humble is this how you came up with a 10 day qt you were talking about?? I don't know if I missed you putting out the info on that

Good to see you again, my friend!

As you know, I use CP almost exclusively now and that is a big part of my 10 day QT protocol. Problem is I also need to deworm (and prophylactically treat with antibiotics) to make the 10 days more inclusive. Mixing liquid Prazipro with CP led to disaster on more than one occasion. The water would get cloudy, the fish started breathing heavy, and I would have to quickly move them into another QT. I eventually figured out it was the Oxybispropanol interacting negatively with CP, causing a bacterial bloom which was robbing all the water of O2. So I've been using power praziquantel instead (and power metro), and this seems to have resolved the interaction issues. I've tested just about every antibiotic with both power prazi/metro and CP, and all good there as well.

I'm one tang with ich away from publishing my findings.

 

[Breakthecycle2]

Good to see you again, my friend!

As you know, I use CP almost exclusively now and that is a big part of my 10 day QT protocol. Problem is I also need to deworm (and prophylactically treat with antibiotics) to make the 10 days more inclusive. Mixing liquid Prazipro with CP led to disaster on more than one occasion. The water would get cloudy, the fish started breathing heavy, and I would have to quickly move them into another QT. I eventually figured out it was the Oxybispropanol interacting negatively with CP, causing a bacterial bloom which was robbing all the water of O2. So I've been using power praziquantel instead (and power metro), and this seems to have resolved the interaction issues. I've tested just about every antibiotic with both power prazi/metro and CP, and all good there as well.

I'm one tang with ich away from publishing my findings.

This would a massive help. Anyway you skip the tang. .lol

 

[Humblefish]

This would a massive help. Anyway you skip the tang. .lol

It has to be tested on a tang with full blown ich in order to satisfy me. My local Petco is currently infested with velvet and the fish are dying faster than I can get to them. And when I treat a fish with velvet, I have to use a FW dip/chemical bath before putting the fish in CP and doing that invalidates my experiment...

 

[Breakthecycle2]

How do you get rid of the bacterial bloom from the drug interaction?

 

[melypr1985]

How do you get rid of the bacterial bloom from the drug interaction?

I'm curious as well. Would you have to run carbon and a water change and strip the meds, then start over with one at a time? Or just start over using the powdered forms of the prazi and metro?

 

[Humblefish]

How do you get rid of the bacterial bloom from the drug interaction?

Large water changes/running carbon. But that also removes a lot of the meds (so you have to start over with that), plus if the bacterial bloom is severe enough you won't be able to do it in time to save the fish's life. Having a fishless frag tank has saved my butt more than once because in a QT emergency I can always just put the fish in there.

 

[melypr1985]

Large water changes/running carbon. But that removes a lot of the meds (so you have to start over with that), plus if the bacterial bloom is severe enough you won't be able to do it in time to save the fish's life. Having a fishless frag tank has saved my butt more than once because in a QT emergency I can always just put the fish in there.

I got it right! yay!

 

[Humblefish]

Or just start over using the powdered forms of the prazi and metro?

Once I've experienced a bacterial bloom by mixing meds, as a general rule I don't mix those meds ever again. Most of the issues I've experienced involves mixing Prazipro with one of the following: Chloroquine phosphate, antibiotics or an ammonia reducer. Interestingly though, I've never experienced a negative interaction mixing Prazipro with any form of copper. However, the presence of copper does reduce the overall effectiveness of praziquantel. So I only advocate mixing the two during an emergency situation - when both flukes and either ich or velvet are known to be present.

 

[KimberlySNoble]

Good to see you again, my friend!

As you know, I use CP almost exclusively now and that is a big part of my 10 day QT protocol. Problem is I also need to deworm (and prophylactically treat with antibiotics) to make the 10 days more inclusive. Mixing liquid Prazipro with CP led to disaster on more than one occasion. The water would get cloudy, the fish started breathing heavy, and I would have to quickly move them into another QT. I eventually figured out it was the Oxybispropanol interacting negatively with CP, causing a bacterial bloom which was robbing all the water of O2. So I've been using power praziquantel instead (and power metro), and this seems to have resolved the interaction issues. I've tested just about every antibiotic with both power prazi/metro and CP, and all good there as well.

I'm one tang with ich away from publishing my findings.

What is the best thing to use in tank to make sure my Koi are clean of all parasites/worms and bacteria infections? Im new to this and have had quite a few die so I want to make sure I do right by them. Your help is sooo greatly appreciated!!