Question on t5 lighting

[saltyfilmfolks]

I just don't understand why there is so much emphasis on PAR as a "standard tool".
Thanks!
Grandis.

Same reason alkalinity is.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I think the whole LED deal is a waste of time anyways, but let's not go there.
I know there are ways that PAR could help placement of corals and all that. I don't like the emphasis.
I've learned wrongly that PAR would be great to choose bulbs until I started looking into spectrum and understood the importance of certain wavelengths. Now I know also about the PAR meters.
Thanks for the explanation!
Grandis.

You went there.

 

[CubanHogFish]

Either way really , but it depends on how it’s wired.
He’ll never “need” all the tubes on the tank

The led would just let him see Thant more and get the pop. Purely visual


Honestly, if one leads more about PUR and what you need for coral , you just need to measure intensity.
Par has just become a standard tool.

And yea , 160 is kinda an average based on manufacturer specs and user data. A bad fixture will def give you less output

The fixture has 2 channels one controls 3 bulbs on the left side and 3 on the right side. The bulbs are arranged side by side making them a "72" bulb sort of speak (just saying 36"+36"=72")

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[Dana Riddle]

If fluorescent coloration is your only issue, concentrate on lamps that generate violet/blue wavelengths. If your corals contain the non-fluorescent proteins (usually reddish/purple sometimes blue) use a full spectrum lamp to showcase these colors. Intensity then becomes the issue and it is probably no accident that many coral colors are expressed at the point of photosaturation (generally 300-400 micromole/m2/sec.) Recall that some colors (Ds-Red type proteins) do not require light to mature and are auto-catalytic.
The PAR meter debate continues. Can you have success without measuring PAR? Certainly. Success without measuring calcium/magnesium? Yes. A beautiful tank without testing salinity/temperature. Yes. Would I recommend guessing on any of those parameters? No!
The newer PAR meters' sensors from Apogee read about 3.5% low on most LED combos while the 'gold standard' LiCor reads about 3% high on the same lamps.

 

[Sharvey103]

So what are the best T5 bulbs to use in conjunction with LEDs on an SPS tank?

 

[Bpb]

As always there is no best. That is WAY over generalized. Not only will type of led, spectrum, power, mix, and photoperiod completely change what t5 tubes you could choose, but your own goals, preferences, and livestock choice will change that decision as well. No such thing as a “best” combination. Jason fox uses a mix of blue+, True Actinic, and reef brite blue LEDs. No whites at all. Adam at Battlecorals has been known to use 6500k halides. Which is best? Neither. Preferences matter. All will Work to varying degrees.

 

[Sycoticrealm]

PAR Vs. PUR remember just because it has high PAR doesn't mean it all useable PUR.
Nothing can be calculated with an exact number there is too many variables.
Pick a quality bulb that pleases your visual and get a meter to be sure.
Cooling, Reflectors and height of fixture is just the tip of the iceberg.
I like ATI and Giesemann.
If you like LED's "Pop" like was suggested go for it.
That a monster T5 light though i had one on my 125g.

 

[A. grandis]

Same reason alkalinity is.

I was specifically referring to the market.
But I get your point.
Grandis.

 

[A. grandis]

You went there.

You're right! I'm sorry. LOL!!
Grandis.

 

[Daniel Waters]

To answer some of your original questions, I would look at this as a 6 bulb fixture. It just appears you have two 36" length fixtures to span the 72".

I think you have a variety of bulb combinations you can try. What color % (not intensity) were you running your kessils at or what was your preferred color %? If you were around 35% color, I think the blue plus bulb will be similar. If you were at 50% or higher, I think you will like a coral plus bulb better. If you were at like 20% or less, you might want to throw in an actinic bulb in with some blue plus bulbs. Without knowing what you prefer visually, I'd say go with 4 blue plus and 2 coral plus bulbs. If you like a whiter tank, 3 blue plus and 3 coral plus will look pretty white I think. If you like deeper blue, use less coral plus and consider throwing in an actinic. The blue plus and coral plus bulbs have proper spectrum and will grow coral. You don't need to over think it and think you need 4 different types of bulbs for instance...but it sure is fun trying out different combinations. Ha!

If you have the option with a canopy or using the new aquatic life fixture, i personally think running t5s with kesssils is beautiful. You could consider that unless your set on using your existing fixtures.

 

[A. grandis]

If fluorescent coloration is your only issue, concentrate on lamps that generate violet/blue wavelengths. If your corals contain the non-fluorescent proteins (usually reddish/purple sometimes blue) use a full spectrum lamp to showcase these colors. Intensity then becomes the issue and it is probably no accident that many coral colors are expressed at the point of photosaturation (generally 300-400 micromole/m2/sec.) Recall that some colors (Ds-Red type proteins) do not require light to mature and are auto-catalytic.
The PAR meter debate continues. Can you have success without measuring PAR? Certainly. Success without measuring calcium/magnesium? Yes. A beautiful tank without testing salinity/temperature. Yes. Would I recommend guessing on any of those parameters? No!
The newer PAR meters' sensors from Apogee read about 3.5% low on most LED combos while the 'gold standard' LiCor reads about 3% high on the same lamps.

Thanks Dana!
What is the difference between the protein and non protein colors and how do we distinguish them apart?
What about distinguishing apart those colors that require light to mature and the ones that do not require?
So one of the main reasons to measure PAR would be to avoid photosaturation? What would this apply for, specifically?
For a T5 and/or halide systems it would be directly related to photoperiod and intensity, right?
Grandis.

 

[Dana Riddle]

Thanks Dana!
What is the difference between the protein and non protein colors and how do we distinguish them apart?
What about distinguishing apart those colors that require light to mature and the ones that do not require?
So one of the main reasons to measure PAR would be to avoid photosaturation? What would this apply for, specifically?
For a T5 and/or halide systems it would be directly related to photoperiod and intensity, right?
Grandis.

Here's an article (one of many on the subject) I wrote 9 years ago:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2009/2/aafeature1
Yes, avoiding photosaturation is important for many reasons. First, too much light can be counter-productive since photoinhibition is a slowing of the rate of photosynthesis. There are two types of photoinhibition - 1. Dynamic - Due to the xanthophyll cycle. It is natural and occurs when there is too much light. 2. Chronic - Where Dynamic Photoinhibition fails to offer enough protection, and damage occurs to the photosynthetic apparatus. Energy that could be directed to growth or reproduction is then used for repair.
So, photoinhibition is potentially damaging but also wasteful energy-wise, especially if a chiller is needed to offset heat gain from hot lamps. Photoinhibition is mostly tied to intensity, but sustained intensity (photoperiod) causes more damage due to dosage. Sort of like me when I lived in Hawaii and wouldn't put on sunscreen - if the UV dosage was high, I would get a sunburn if I stayed out in the sun too long.

 

[Dana Riddle]

And another article on fluorescence:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2009/4/aafeature1
Note that intensity and spectral quality are major players here, hence light measurement is important.

 

[CubanHogFish]

To answer some of your original questions, I would look at this as a 6 bulb fixture. It just appears you have two 36" length fixtures to span the 72".

I think you have a variety of bulb combinations you can try. What color % (not intensity) were you running your kessils at or what was your preferred color %? If you were around 35% color, I think the blue plus bulb will be similar. If you were at 50% or higher, I think you will like a coral plus bulb better. If you were at like 20% or less, you might want to throw in an actinic bulb in with some blue plus bulbs. Without knowing what you prefer visually, I'd say go with 4 blue plus and 2 coral plus bulbs. If you like a whiter tank, 3 blue plus and 3 coral plus will look pretty white I think. If you like deeper blue, use less coral plus and consider throwing in an actinic. The blue plus and coral plus bulbs have proper spectrum and will grow coral. You don't need to over think it and think you need 4 different types of bulbs for instance...but it sure is fun trying out different combinations. Ha!

If you have the option with a canopy or using the new aquatic life fixture, i personally think running t5s with kesssils is beautiful. You could consider that unless your set on using your existing fixtures.

By far thos is the best answer for my original question all tho i appriciate all the other info about t5 since i do t know anything about them. I really dont like the white look the t5 fixture i have has redsea bulbs in it. For sure i know it has 2 whites 2 true actinic and the rest are blue reef actinic atleast thays what the bulb say i defenatly would like more bue. But unless i start chopping up the t5 fixture i can not use the kessils

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[Daniel Waters]

By far thos is the best answer for my original question all tho i appriciate all the other info about t5 since i do t know anything about them. I really dont like the white look the t5 fixture i have has redsea bulbs in it. For sure i know it has 2 whites 2 true actinic and the rest are blue reef actinic atleast thays what the bulb say i defenatly would like more bue. But unless i start chopping up the t5 fixture i can not use the kessils

Sent from my SM-G935V using REEF2REEF mobile app

Yes, the side bars and tangents can happen on this forum! But I learn a lot from those also!

I would recommend 4 blue plus and 2 coral plus if you don't like a white look. Personally, even that combination is a bit white for my tastes but would be a good starting point and provide a great spectrum for coral health. Since you will be buying 12 bulbs, I'd recommend buying 5 blue plus, 2 coral plus, and one actinic bulb (8 bulbs to start). Then try out different combinations in ONE fixture to find the mix you like, such as 4 blue plus, 1 coral plus, 1 actinic or 4 blue plus and 2 coral plus, or 5 blue plus and 1 coral plus. When you get the combination you like, just use the extra bulbs in your other fixture and order the other bulbs to match the combination you like.

 

[skiergd011013]

I really like the ATI blue + bulbs. You can really grow anything with just this bulb. I think adding the purple + bulbs brings out some more colors. I use 3 blue and 1 purple in a 4 bulb fixture and really like it.

i use the same combo as you. Its nice, but sometimes i want it even bluer. Hmm.

 

[CubanHogFish]

Those are the differences of blues of the kessils and t5 obviously i know im never going to get that blue with t5 but im really focusing in coral coloration. I have a jf homewrecker and a walt disney that dont have the colors that they had when i first purchsed them. And there is a few other corals that are of color concern like my oragan tort and cali tort they both should be a real dark blue in color.

Sent from my SM-G935V using REEF2REEF mobile app

 

[A. grandis]

Here's an article (one of many on the subject) I wrote 9 years ago:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2009/2/aafeature1
Yes, avoiding photosaturation is important for many reasons. First, too much light can be counter-productive since photoinhibition is a slowing of the rate of photosynthesis. There are two types of photoinhibition - 1. Dynamic - Due to the xanthophyll cycle. It is natural and occurs when there is too much light. 2. Chronic - Where Dynamic Photoinhibition fails to offer enough protection, and damage occurs to the photosynthetic apparatus. Energy that could be directed to growth or reproduction is then used for repair.
So, photoinhibition is potentially damaging but also wasteful energy-wise, especially if a chiller is needed to offset heat gain from hot lamps. Photoinhibition is mostly tied to intensity, but sustained intensity (photoperiod) causes more damage due to dosage. Sort of like me when I lived in Hawaii and wouldn't put on sunscreen - if the UV dosage was high, I would get a sunburn if I stayed out in the sun too long.

And another article on fluorescence:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2009/4/aafeature1
Note that intensity and spectral quality are major players here, hence light measurement is important.

I like to learn the terms! Thanks Dana!
Thanks also for the links! You could put all the links for the articles related to the topic here so I can take a look at them, or send me through PM! I appreciate that! I'll have to find time to read them!!
I'm a very good observer of my tanks, nature, and know all that kine stuff by looking, but need to spend time to understand the terms and so on...
Aloha,
Grandis.

 

[Dana Riddle]

I like to learn the terms! Thanks Dana!
Thanks also for the links! You could put all the links for the articles related to the topic here so I can take a look at them, or send me through PM! I appreciate that! I'll have to find time to read them!!
I'm a very good observer of my tanks, nature, and know all that kine stuff by looking, but need to spend time to understand the terms and so on...
Aloha,
Grandis.

Perhaps the easiest thing to do is visit the Advanced Aquarist site and use the search function for "Riddle coloration." There are about a dozen articles on the subject, totaling about 300 pages, I think.

 

[A. grandis]

Perhaps the easiest thing to do is visit the Advanced Aquarist site and use the search function for "Riddle coloration." There are about a dozen articles on the subject, totaling about 300 pages, I think.

Oh man! ;Wideyed
Is that how much I need to learn?
LOL!
I'll try my best!
Thanks again!!
Grandis.