Question regarding high Lanthanum and silica

[Abhishek]

Hi Randy,

I received my triton tests and could find high levels of La and Si .

1. High levels of lanthanum - Now I have been dosing lanthanum chloride in a 10 micron sock . My understanding was that the sock would catch all the flocculants but clearly they much have escaped and there is high Lanthanum in my tank.

Triton suggests to perform 6 15% water change and I have stopped using lanthanum chloride now.
My question is it just sufficient to perform water change or you think I should get all the detritus out of my sump . Is lanthanum soluble in water ? Is there anything else that would bind to lanthanum and remove it ? Inhabitants including all of my acros are unaffecetd by these high levels.

2. High levels of silica - Triton suggests and I agree its because of using 10 liters of 25 mm siporax that i introduced like 7 months back to take care of high nitrates. I had a few pieces crushed in my sump . Dont know if that be the reason.
Now, I have got BRS GFO but triton suggests using AL99 or Rox or phosban . My understanding was any kind of granulated ferric oxide would bind to silica and phosphates. Do you know if there's anything special in Rox or Phosban that would bind better to silica compared to BRS GFO ?

Appreciate your help .

Regards,
Abhishek

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Lanthanum is added as a soluble ion, like when you add calcium. Unless it precipitates as lanthanum carbonate or lanthanum phosphate, it will not be able to be collected in any type of mechanical filtration.

I'm not sure how much lanthanum in the water is too much. The only people who I recall ever seeing with any are those who, at some point, used lanthanum.

Silicate/silica is not a concern unless you have diatoms. I personally wouldn't work to reduce it unless that was a problem. Lasse used Siporax and also had super high Si, and he thought his tank was OK.

 

[Abhishek]

Lanthanum is added as a soluble ion, like when you add calcium. Unless it precipitates as lanthanum carbonate or lanthanum phosphate, it will not be able to be collected in any type of mechanical filtration.

I'm not sure how much lanthanum in the water is too much. The only people who I recall ever seeing with any are those who, at some point, used lanthanum.

Silicate/silica is not a concern unless you have diatoms. I personally wouldn't work to reduce it unless that was a problem. Lasse used Siporax and also had super high Si, and he thought his tank was OK.

Thanks Randy for the detailed answer .
So I do dose lanthanum chloride to reduce phosphates inside filter socks . This should precipitate as lanthanum phosphate inside the socks to be removed . But triton tests show that lanthanum is present in my water which means not all of it precipitated .
Am trying to find any documentation on harmful effects of Lanthanum on corals especially acropora .
Will continue with the suggested water changes for 4-6 weeks to see the impact .

I don't have a speck of diatoms and my filter feeding population of sponges has increased a lot . Am still looking for that article from a long time ago which you published on dosing silica in reef tank . But overall if anything , my sponges and other filter feeders seem to be enjoying it or so my unscientific eye sees lol !!

Regards,
Abhishek

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Thanks Randy for the detailed answer .
So I do dose lanthanum chloride to reduce phosphates inside filter socks . This should precipitate as lanthanum phosphate inside the socks to be removed . But triton tests show that lanthanum is present in my water which means not all of it precipitated .
Am trying to find any documentation on harmful effects of Lanthanum on corals especially acropora .
Will continue with the suggested water changes for 4-6 weeks to see the impact .

I don't have a speck of diatoms and my filter feeding population of sponges has increased a lot . Am still looking for that article from a long time ago which you published on dosing silica in reef tank . But overall if anything , my sponges and other filter feeders seem to be enjoying it or so my unscientific eye sees lol !!

Regards,
Abhishek

I doubt you'll find any such tests on lanthanum and corals. Lanthanum would never get raised in the ocean.

Lanthanum is also used in people to bind phosphate in the GI tract in people with chronic kidney disease that have elevated phosphate. That competes directly with one of my products that uses an organic polymer (sevelamer carbonate) to bind phosphate in the same patients. Since there was hardly any information available on the effects of lanthanum in people, we sponsored studies that ended up showing people that lanthanum was absorbed into bones in place of calcium. I would not be surprised if a lot of the lanthanum ends up in coral skeletons in place of calcium, but the effect of that is unknown and likely not a big problem.

FWIW, when I just googled lanthanum and corals, I hit my own April fools joke as the third hit and it came with the title "Corals with Lanthanum Carbonate Skeletons" lol

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/corals-with-lanthanum-carbonate-skeletons.196957/

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I don't have a speck of diatoms and my filter feeding population of sponges has increased a lot . Am still looking for that article from a long time ago which you published on dosing silica in reef tank . But overall if anything , my sponges and other filter feeders seem to be enjoying it or so my unscientific eye sees lol !!

FWIW, I'm not 100% sure that the Si that you and Lasse see is actually silicate/silicic acid. It might be some other form, and perhaps one that is not easily used by diatoms.

 

[Cory]

I doubt there is much difference between phosban and brs iron oxide as far as silicate removal.

If it is silicate, sponges and diatoms will bring it down.

Fwiw boomer on another forum suggested alunimun oxide was more effective at silicate removal.

 

[Abhishek]

FWIW, I'm not 100% sure that the Si that you and Lasse see is actually silicate/silicic acid. It might be some other form, and perhaps one that is not easily used by diatoms.

That might be very true Randy as I dont find a speck of diatoms in my tank visibly. Doesnt mean its not there ofcoarse.
But can it be that this form of Si is actually used by filter feeders because i have an outbreak of pineapple sponges and other sponges and other filter feeders in my sump and tank ?

Regards,
Abhishek

 

[Abhishek]

I doubt there is much difference between phosban and brs iron oxide as far as silicate removal.

If it is silicate, sponges and diatoms will bring it down.

Fwiw boomer on another forum suggested alunimun oxide was more effective at silicate removal.

Thanks for the inputs ! Well I shall use BRS GFO and try and see for a couple of months . Anyways I need to use something to keep my phosphates in check .
Triton actually suggests their AL99 for silicate removal but at that price, I would stick to BRS gfo that I already have.

Regards,
Abhishek