Questions about hospital tank

[bertshaft]

The smallest are the chromis at about 1.5 inches and the largest is the foxface at 4 in . All fish are feeding well esp the copperband who is a pig for clams . I could get a hanna checker tomorrow but would have to wait for the copper power . Should I take a chance and wait for the copper power then use that ? . I’ve been dosing polyplab medic in the hope that it might do something but still have ick . On day 10 of the medic .

 

[sc50964]

The smallest are the chromis at about 1.5 inches and the largest is the foxface at 4 in . All fish are feeding well esp the copperband who is a pig for clams . I could get a hanna checker tomorrow but would have to wait for the copper power . Should I take a chance and wait for the copper power then use that ? . I’ve been dosing polyplab medic in the hope that it might do something but still have ick . On day 10 of the medic .

It really depends on how much risk you are willing to take & how much longer it will take you to get copper power.
Why don’t you consider dosing cupramine at 1/2 power measured by Hanna daily until you get copper power then you can do a large water change before getting copper power in?

 

[bertshaft]

That sounds like a plan . Would I have to completely drain and flush the tank when changing from cupramine to copper power, would there be a reaction between the two ?

 

[sc50964]

That sounds like a plan . Would I have to completely drain and flush the tank when changing from cupramine to copper power, would there be a reaction between the two ?

I think a 30% water change will do the trick. LFS in the US uses cupramine all the time cuz it’s cheaper, and I must have exposed the newly acclimated fish to both during the acclimation process & really haven’t noticed any impact. The right concentration for copper power is 2.0-2.5ppm so a little cupramine shouldn’t hurt.

 

[gbroadbridge]

Are you sure about the source of inaccuracy? Hanna has admitted to me about that level of problem due to their reagents but not their machines. In fact I have two and have compared their measurements periodically and never had anything greater than 0.05ppm diff.

humble fish said the inaccuracy is only +/- 0.05ppm

If you have the Hanna HR copper, take a sample of your known 0.00 ppm Cu water and let me know what it says

 

[sc50964]

If you have the Hanna HR copper, take a sample of your known 0.00 ppm Cu water and let me know what it says

I’ve done that before & it was less than 0.1 for sure.

 

[gbroadbridge]

I’ve done that before & it was less than 0.1 for sure.

Okay, I just did the test on my tank it and got 0.08, which is nonsense as the ICP I did a couple of weeks was 0.00.

Looking back at when I last did sort of test, I was trying to dose ionic Cu/Citric which has to be maintained between 0.18 and 0.22 ppm for a therapeutic dose. Any higher is toxic. An error of 0.1ppm is therefore not really useable, as I have no idea if that offset is linear as the concentration increases.

I do know that when dosing Copperpower to 2.5ppm the question is really irrelevant. But bother Copperpower and Cupramine are illegal where I live. Only vets/fish importers have legal access to them.

I guess that with Cupramine you could shoot for 0.5ppm on a Hanna, and hope you're not at 0.6ppm.
I'm not sure how toxic that may be.

That's the reasoning behind why I maintain that the Hanna HR is pretty useless for Cupramine.
And of course, the Hanna LR Copper is not suitable for saltwater at all.

I found the Seachem Cu test is the most useful at levels under 1.0ppm

 

[sc50964]

Okay, I just did the test on my tank it and got 0.08, which is nonsense as the ICP I did a couple of weeks was 0.00.

Looking back at when I last did sort of test, I was trying to dose ionic Cu/Citric which has to be maintained between 0.18 and 0.22 ppm for a therapeutic dose. Any higher is toxic. An error of 0.1ppm is therefore not really useable, as I have no idea if that offset is linear as the concentration increases.

I do know that when dosing Copperpower to 2.5ppm the question is really irrelevant. But bother Copperpower and Cupramine are illegal where I live. Only vets/fish importers have legal access to them.

I guess that with Cupramine you could shoot for 0.5ppm on a Hanna, and hope you're not at 0.6ppm.
I'm not sure how toxic that may be.

That's the reasoning behind why I maintain that the Hanna HR is pretty useless for Cupramine.
And of course, the Hanna LR Copper is not suitable for saltwater at all.

I found the Seachem Cu test is the most useful at levels under 1.0ppm

These were my past comparisons.

 

[sc50964]

More recent - 10/2022

 

[gbroadbridge]

More recent - 10/2022

I'm not sure I understand what you are showing here.

I'd expect two Hanna Checkers, probably with the same reagent batch to show the same numbers within 0.05ppm as that is per specification.

Did you compare to an ICP or another Cu test and plot the numbers?

 

[bertshaft]

So I’ve bitten the bullet and got a hanna copper checker coming tomorrow and was able to track down some power copper in the uk , also coming tomorrow. At an extortionate price £45. Compared to us prices. When I joined this forum and introduced myself I made some off the cuff remark about selling my first born child to get back into the hobby . Wasn’t far wrong . Thank you all for all your help .

 

[bertshaft]

So I’ve bitten the bullet and got a hanna copper checker coming tomorrow and was able to track down some power copper in the uk , also coming tomorrow. At an extortionate price £45. Compared to us prices. When I joined this forum and introduced myself I made some off the cuff remark about selling my first born child to get back into the hobby . Wasn’t far wrong . Thank you all for all your help .

 

[Forsaken77]

Afternoon all ( uk time )
Bit of a sticky situation and a couple of questions to answer if at all possible please . One of my fish , regal tang , has what I believe is ick . As it’s in my dt I’ve decided to strip the tank down and use it as a hospital tank . I have a reefer 450 which I’m setting up and the idea of having to chase a fish around that gives me nightmares . It won’t be ready for at least another month .
the tank I have is 120 lt , about 32 us gallons. In it I have x2 common clowns , x2 blue green chromois , small coral beauty, small mustard tang , copperband and a Fiji foxface . Yes I know it’s a bit crowded in there but they are all small/ young fish and hadn’t intended them to stay in there that long .
I have live rock and a sand bed . Corals , mostly softies, crabs , shrimp, and snails .
all are feeding well and putting on weight .
The system has no sump and being run on a canister filter with a uv . Internal protein skimmer and x2 wave makers . I understand this is not ideal and with hindsight would have done it differently but this is what I have .

my plan was to remove all remove all rock and sand , dip corals and put in their own qt tank for about a month. Remove filter and skimmer , put in hob filter and dose with Cupramine, testing with salifert test kit .regular water changes as required with a seachem ammonia alert in both tanks . Tank will be bare bottom with plastic pipes in . 30 days . Then transfer to reefer which hopefully will be set up and cycled by this time .
Do think this would work?
I gather that any equipment in contact with the copper can’t be used in the dt if it has inverts/corals in so will be kept just for qt from now on , which I should have done in the first place . Lesson learned.
The rock was going to be used in the new tank and I was going to bleach it before putting it in . Do you think I can do the same with the sand as I’d hate to just throw it away?
If you’ve got to the end of all this , we’ll done , thank you and 10 points to griffindore. Cheers .

As long as you literally strip the tank bare, any tank will work. But I would leave the rock and sand in the current tank and treat it like the fish in a fallow tank.

Wash the equipment off, soak what you can in water/vinegar or water bleach. Though bleach will dry out any rubber O-rings.

I would treat the rock and sand like fish. Keep it in a fallow tank for however many weeks so the ick can't multiply and die off. You can medicate heavily (no copper), because no living things, just know you'll be starting over with the rock and sand afterwards.

I would put the fish in a cheap 20 long, no sand or rock, and dose them together. No skimmer! If you like use a bubbler. Just a power head, heater, and plain floss or padding in a hang on filter. Or skip the floss and just have an empty filter running for water movement and to be more precise with meds. It's easy enough to do water changes in a 20 and make sure to replenish the meds for the water you remove. Use a Seachem Ammonia Alert to tell you when water needs changing. Just vacuum out debris.

 

[bertshaft]

I’m not sure my stock would last for a couple of months in a 20 as it may be a bit crowded. The coral that’s attached to the rock I can transfer to frags and after dipping, keep in a separate tank along with the invert’s , clean bottom on both .

 

[threebuoys]

I’m not sure my stock would last for a couple of months in a 20 as it may be a bit crowded. The coral that’s attached to the rock I can transfer to frags and after dipping, keep in a separate tank along with the invert’s , clean bottom on both .

You're getting a lot of advice to your question!

If you go back to the beginning, you were on the right track and you should stick with it.

No need to buy a new tank for the QT since you're in the process of moving to a new, larger tank. 32 gallons is a great size and later on, if you don't keep it for a hospital tank, you have a lot of other possibilities for its use. If you are a DIY person, you might even use it to build a sump or refugium.

Cupramine will work fine, just be careful with the dosing. The only two choices I would consider for copper testing is the kit sold by Seachem (the same vendor that sells cupramine), or the Hanna tester. Seachem recommends dosage from 0.2mg/l (.20ppm) to 0.8mg/l (.80ppm) maximum toxicity. We recommend .50 ppm. the Hanna testing accuracy is acceptable within the target concentration. Other kits may work as well, I just do not have experience with them.

The link below provides further insight into the QT recommendations made by the #fishmedic team if you are still having questions.

 

[bertshaft]

Thank you for the info . As said I’ve got hanna checker and copper power coming tomorrow so will try to get as much done tonight to get ready . Will check out the fish medic team link you sent me . Thank you . Will strip the main tank , put corals/ inverts in smaller tank . Treat main tank , clean rock and leave fallow .As it turns out getting the 32 gallon for the coral / inverts is a blessing in disguise as my shell dwellers and fairy cichlid’s have declared war on each other as they both decided to spawn at the same time and it’s turned into a turf war. Could put one lot into that tank . I don’t think I will be buying any new stuff soon as I’ve used all my good boy points up with my wife
Thanks again all for all your help and advice .