Questions about kalk

tyler1503

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Hello R2R!!!

I've never been one for fancy gadgets and chemicals going into the tank. I like to keep things as simple and natural as possible. That being said, I think I'm ready to set some of those ideas aside take the plunge into dosing properly.
I have a 20gal DT, approximately 8gal sump and I'll eventually be adding another 20 gallons for an external fuge. I'll possibly be adding a frag tank too which will be about 10-15 gallons. So total water volume may be around 60 gallons give or take, but for now it's approximately 30.
I have only LPS at the moment, but will be testing out some SPS in the next few weeks. Most likely poccilopora and birdsnests. I'm not after anything too demanding just yet ;)
I've done some reading into dosing kalkwasser from the ATO. I've read quite a lot of contradicting info about this though and I'm a little confused. I don't know much about chemistry, so a lot of what I read goes in one ear and out the other.
My questions are:

Is it best to use other supplements to raise alk and cal to the levels I'm happy with, then use kalk to maintain those levels, or can I just use kalk right from the start?

I know this varies from tank to tank, but as a general consensus, are alk and cal consumption fairly balanced? If I get my parameters to the numbers I'm aiming for, will kalk maintain them there, or will I have to dose extra of cal or alk to keep them stable?

Are there cheaper options than kalk supplements which are specifically designed for marine tanks? A homemade option perhaps?

Evaporation isn't consistent, I may lose more water one day and less the next day.
I usually use about 3/4-1 whole Red Sea salt bucket (which mixes 55 gallons of salt water) of top off water per day with the ATO but that varies day to day. With the weather cooling down quite quickly, I'm expecting to have less evaporation over the next few months. Plus when I eventually get my external fuge and frag tank up and running, I'll most likely lose more.
This means I'll be dosing different amounts daily from the ATO. Are these different amounts of dosing going to be an issue, or should it remain consistent enough?

I know changing one parameter may effect others, will dosing kalk have effects on other parameters besides alk, cal and PH that I'll need to keep an eye on? I've read it may help in reducing PO4, but I don't know how.

Does it matter when I dose? I've read night time is better than day time, but I can't really control that with my ATO. Why would the time of day make a difference? Some people suggest corals consume more alk and cal when the lights are on, so dosing at night will keep things more stable. But whatever alk and cal they don't consume during the night would be used up the next day, so does it really matter?

Kalk will raise PH too, so will the increase in PH eventually lead to a higher consumption of alk? When I get things going, will I eventually have to up the dose to keep things stable?

That's all the questions I have for now, but I bet there will be more :)
Thanks!!
 
One more question! I knew there'd be more :)

What's everyone's favourite kalk supplement? I'd like to use a homemade option if that's possible, but I'm looking at either seachem or two little fishies brands.
 
Hello R2R!!!

I've never been one for fancy gadgets and chemicals going into the tank. I like to keep things as simple and natural as possible. That being said, I think I'm ready to set some of those ideas aside take the plunge into dosing properly.
I have a 20gal DT, approximately 8gal sump and I'll eventually be adding another 20 gallons for an external fuge. I'll possibly be adding a frag tank too which will be about 10-15 gallons. So total water volume may be around 60 gallons give or take, but for now it's approximately 30.
I have only LPS at the moment, but will be testing out some SPS in the next few weeks. Most likely poccilopora and birdsnests. I'm not after anything too demanding just yet ;)
I've done some reading into dosing kalkwasser from the ATO. I've read quite a lot of contradicting info about this though and I'm a little confused. I don't know much about chemistry, so a lot of what I read goes in one ear and out the other.
My questions are:

Is it best to use other supplements to raise alk and cal to the levels I'm happy with, then use kalk to maintain those levels, or can I just use kalk right from the start?

Yes raise alk with baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) and calcium with calcium chloride. Then let kalk maintain it.

I know this varies from tank to tank, but as a general consensus, are alk and cal consumption fairly balanced? Yes If I get my parameters to the numbers I'm aiming for, will kalk maintain them there, or will I have to dose extra of cal or alk to keep them stable?

You may have to use something stronger but has less impact on ph if you have a lot of alk/calcium consumption. Like two part or a calcium reactor. Too much kalk and the ph skyrockets.

Are there cheaper options than kalk supplements which are specifically designed for marine tanks? A homemade option perhaps?

Just baking soda

Evaporation isn't consistent, I may lose more water one day and less the next day.
I usually use about 3/4-1 whole Red Sea salt bucket (which mixes 55 gallons of salt water) of top off water per day with the ATO but that varies day to day. With the weather cooling down quite quickly, I'm expecting to have less evaporation over the next few months. Plus when I eventually get my external fuge and frag tank up and running, I'll most likely lose more.
This means I'll be dosing different amounts daily from the ATO. Are these different amounts of dosing going to be an issue, or should it remain consistent enough?

If calcification remains the same then yes evaporation differences will not maintain alk/cal at a rock solid 8dkh it will drift.

I know changing one parameter may effect others, will dosing kalk have effects on other parameters besides alk, cal and PH that I'll need to keep an eye on? Not likely I've read it may help in reducing PO4, but I don't know how.

The high ph of kalk added to the tank water causes phosphate to precipitate on calcium carbonate iirc

Does it matter when I dose? I've read night time is better than day time, but I can't really control that with my ATO. Why would the time of day make a difference? Some people suggest corals consume more alk and cal when the lights are on, so dosing at night will keep things more stable. But whatever alk and cal they don't consume during the night would be used up the next day, so does it really matter?

Dose all day via an ato. Its nice at night because the high ph of kalk raises the drop in ph from lack of photosynthesis

Kalk will raise PH too, so will the increase in PH eventually lead to a higher consumption of alk? If phosphate is low, sometimss yes. When I get things going, will I eventually have to up the dose to keep things stable? Possibly ise a calcium reactor or two part. Kalk isnt really set and forget imo.

That's all the questions I have for now, but I bet there will be more :)
Thanks!!
 
Thanks Cory. I thought baking soda only did alk/ph not calcium too?

Baking soda just does alk and ph. Ph is unimportant as long as over 7.8. It doesnt add calcium. For that youll need calcium chloride. :)
 
So a mix of calcium chloride and baking soda is essentially kalk? Would you happen to know what proportions of each are in the mix?
Thanks!
 
So a mix of calcium chloride and baking soda is essentially kalk? Would you happen to know what proportions of each are in the mix?
Thanks!

No, not even close.

They both provide calcium and alkalinity, but that's the limit of the similarity.

You also cannot "mix" calcium chloride and baking soda outside the tank, or you get limestone (calcium carbonate).
 
So a mix of calcium chloride and baking soda is essentially kalk? Would you happen to know what proportions of each are in the mix?
Thanks!

You cant mix them as Randy was saying or they will turn to rock. But you can add them both to the tank separately.
 
Ahh I see.
So when the time comes, I'll dose baking soda and calcium chloride seperate into the sump, then use kalk in attempt to keep numbers steady. Thanks :)
 
Ahh I see.
So when the time comes, I'll dose baking soda and calcium chloride seperate into the sump, then use kalk in attempt to keep numbers steady. Thanks :)

You can do that, or just the limewater. :)
 
BRS 2-part works great and BRS website has a simple calculator to figure dose size. By far easiest and most accurate calcium/alk supplements I've ever used. Always gets me within +\- 10ppm. $80 for one gallon size kit. Includes magnesium and all the cups to measure! Kalk is a little too unpredictable for me personally.
 
Id guess limewater is unpredictable if dosing it via an ato because evaporation rates vary while calcification is pretty consistent. No?
 
Id guess limewater is unpredictable if dosing it via an ato because evaporation rates vary while calcification is pretty consistent. No?

In that way, yes. By dosing pump or other controlled volume, no. :)
 
Im not down playing kalk in the least bit, I used it *and the calculator* for a while with great success.... Compared to 2 part, it just makes more sense to me, adjusting calcium, alkalinity and magnesium individually.
When I say kalk is less predictable I'm referring to a many things. Inconsistent Evaporation, dosing/ mixing equipment failure/ proper adjustment and timings, impurities, and proper mixture rates/ slurry vs settled lime water..
With 2 part, I mix a gallon jug of each element once every couple months and it's ready to dose when needed. No stirring every few hours or O2 effecting potency or cleaning/ topping off reactors. When I do a weekly test I can add what is needed for each parameter. Kalk is great in the sense of driving an automatic transmission is simplified. But for a more in touch experience, nothing beats driving a 6 speed manual or dosing 2 part. Both methods are great but it comes down to personal preference. That's my 2 cents. I feel more control with individual element dosing and have better understanding of what will/ is happening with my tank.
 
Is dosing two manually a realistic idea? I know dosing pumps are obviously easier and less time consuming, but manual dosing/ato dosing is my only option till I make some changes to my tank.
 
Is dosing two manually a realistic idea? I know dosing pumps are obviously easier and less time consuming, but manual dosing/ato dosing is my only option till I make some changes to my tank.

You can dose two part manually daily. Nothing wrong with that.
 
What sort of daily consumption are you getting?
 
Im not down playing kalk in the least bit, I used it *and the calculator* for a while with great success.... Compared to 2 part, it just makes more sense to me, adjusting calcium, alkalinity and magnesium individually.
When I say kalk is less predictable I'm referring to a many things. Inconsistent Evaporation, dosing/ mixing equipment failure/ proper adjustment and timings, impurities, and proper mixture rates/ slurry vs settled lime water..
.

I agree with some of those, but others are wrong, IMO, and may be the opposite.

For example, impurities. Limewater has a strong tendency to precipitate impurities of concern (copper, phosphate, other heavy metals) while a two part may not (the calcium part won't, for example). I've tested both. :)
 

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