Questions about peroxide

[Fishfinder]

I have a few questions about peroxide dosing. I read the abstract that humblefish posted. After doing a peroxide bath why should you wait 6 days to redo the bath? It says 2 baths made velvet undetectable. Could you do them 2 days apart? After the 1st bath do the fish have to be moved to a new qt or can you return them to the old one until the second bath?
@HotRocks
@Humblefish
@4FordFamily

 

[Dierks]

I think it lines up with the TTM on the 6th day that way, but will let @Humblefish verify that.

 

[Fishfinder]

I’m curious if I can dip fish and put them in a quarantine for two days, dip them again and transfer to a new qt. Then observe for velvet

 

[Dierks]

I think you would be in uncharted territory as even in the study that Humblefish got this concept from they also gave the fish 6 days between dips...

"In the field trial, a single treatment with 75 mg/L hydrogen peroxide greatly reduced levels of Amyloodinium infestation, and a second treatment 6 d later reduced Amyloodinium trophonts to a nondetectable level. "

 

[Fishfinder]

I’m curious what the time delay is for... fish recovery? Velvet life cycle?

 

[Dierks]

I think the life cycle tells us that in 3 days to a week the trophozoites become mature and drop off into the substrate so we want to treat again after they have dropped off if any were missed by the dip?

I am just thinking out loud, but I am sure HUmberfish will come correct me soon

 

[Humblefish]

The study doesn't specify why, but my guess would be to give the fish a break in-between H2O2 baths. Because toxicity to the fish is a big unknown. I'm currently experimenting with 30 min, 150 ppm baths and so far, so good. It's clearing velvet, brook, uronema, flukes & turbellarians in one shot. However, Ich has made it through a few times. And I don't know (yet) if a stronger concentration and/or longer duration will remedy that.

I'm about to take a break from my business, and will then be able to really pour myself into H2O2 experimentation.

In the meanwhile, I would stick to this method in order to eradicate all ectoparasites: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/hybrid-ttm-to-treat-all-parasites.640247/

P.S. The fish should always be transferred into a new/sterile QT following a H2O2 bath. Putting the fish back into the same tank he was taken from will likely just result in reinfection. Since most parasites/worms have a free swimming or floating stage. The only exception to this is if you are using a QT, and have a chemical in the water which kills the free swimming stage (e.g. copper, Chloroquine).

 

[Fishfinder]

@Humblefish i did a 30 min bath today at 150ppm on 10 chromis and 2 wrasses with no issues

 

[Fishfinder]

So after the bath they went into a sterile qt tank. Should I wait 6 days for another bath? What is the time frame on the lifecycle of velvet? Really that is my major concern

 

[Humblefish]

@Humblefish i did a 30 min bath today at 150ppm on 10 chromis and 2 wrasses with no issues

Yes, that concentration/duration does appear to be well tolerated. I am sending all the fish I am treating with H2O2 to a public aquarium for tracking purposes. It's been almost a year for some of the fish and still going strong.

I cannot wait to be able to pour myself into this to find out exactly what H2O2 can/cannot do.

 

[Humblefish]

So after the bath they went into a sterile qt tank. Should I wait 6 days for another bath? What is the time frame on the lifecycle of velvet. Really that is my major concern

The trophonts, which feed and do all the damage, can remain on a fish for as little as 12 hours or as long as 4 days. But my guess is even the trophonts that survive the first H2O2 bath are too damaged to reproduce and continue on with the lifecycle. So, the second bath is more of an insurance policy.

 

[Fishfinder]

I’m going to do some trials of multiple H2O2 baths then into clean tanks. I’ve had poor success with chromis and uronema. Hopefully this helps

 

[Fishfinder]

3 dead this morning. Looks to be uronema

 

[Kyl]

The study doesn't specify why, but my guess would be to give the fish a break in-between H2O2 baths. Because toxicity to the fish is a big unknown. I'm currently experimenting with 30 min, 150 ppm baths and so far, so good. It's clearing velvet, brook, uronema, flukes & turbellarians in one shot. However, Ich has made it through a few times. And I don't know (yet) if a stronger concentration and/or longer duration will remedy that.

I'm about to take a break from my business, and will then be able to really pour myself into H2O2 experimentation.

In the meanwhile, I would stick to this method in order to eradicate all ectoparasites: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/hybrid-ttm-to-treat-all-parasites.640247/

P.S. The fish should always be transferred into a new/sterile QT following a H2O2 bath. Putting the fish back into the same tank he was taken from will likely just result in reinfection. Since most parasites/worms have a free swimming or floating stage. The only exception to this is if you are using a QT, and have a chemical in the water which kills the free swimming stage (e.g. copper, Chloroquine).

I have hope for this becoming something foolproof, it would be a boon to not only the US treatment toolkit, but others in markets that have had governments run amok and remove all medications from the market.

 

[Fishfinder]

A little update. I haven’t lost any more fish from the original three. All fish appear healthy. Maybe the first three were just too far along for treatment to work. But it seem to stop the transmission to the rest of the fish. Normally I am close to 100% loss with chromis

 

[Dierks]

3 dead this morning. Looks to be uronema

Maybe the first three were just too far along for treatment to work

The Hybrid TTM Method is designed to treat the outside of the fish from my understanding... With uronema it is known to lay their eggs and end up inside the fishes Digestive Track. So especially with Chromis treat the inside of the fish as well and I am willing to bet your success rate goes up even further!

Uronema confirmed!

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Humblefish]

I have hope for this becoming something foolproof, it would be a boon to not only the US treatment toolkit, but others in markets that have had governments run amok and remove all medications from the market.

I think a reasonable expectation is that a strong enough H2O2 bath can knock off the most virulent parasites, but Ich will still need to be treated properly. So, better starting point for those who do QT and for those who don't at least you aren't dealing with velvet, brook, etc. in your DT. There are a couple of non-chemical treatment options for Ich (hypo, TTM).

Once I shut down my business (soon) I will have a lot more time to pour into H2O2 experimentation. To determine exactly what it can and cannot do.

A little update. I haven’t lost any more fish from the original three. All fish appear healthy. Maybe the first three were just too far along for treatment to work. But it seem to stop the transmission to the rest of the fish. Normally I am close to 100% loss with chromis

The problem with chromis + uronema is the latter can spread internally over organs. So, H2O2 can kill all the external parasites but the fish still succumbs to those eating away at him internally. Food soaking metro is the best option for treating internal uronema.

 

[Fishfinder]

So, better starting point for those who do QT and for those who don't at least you aren't dealing with velvet, brook, etc. in your DT.

These are really why I QT. I’m worried about the big ones, that will wipe out an entire display. My display has ich. I really only QT for velvet and brook