Questions about Red Sea "recipes"

[lickyricky]

Hey guys,

Hope your having a great night! I just had a quick question about Red Sea's Recipes listed on their website. Take a look at the below pic. Do I really need to dose all this stuff daily? There are a lot of things on the list so I just wanted to be sure. Here is the link also if you want to look at the site yourself.

http://www.redseafish.com/reef-care-recipes/#recipe_1

As always thanks for all your help!

 

[Diesel]

Well, the first three can be really important but it depends on what kind of corals you will keep.

The second part is also corals related

And the last is to keep nutrients under control but that can be done in a different way as well.

 

[lickyricky]

Well, the first three can be really important but it depends on what kind of corals you will keep.

The second part is also corals related

And the last is to keep nutrients under control but that can be done in a different way as well.

I plan on mostly keeping LPS/soft and maybe some zoas. 3-4 fish

So it wouldn't be a bad thing to dose this daily?

 

[Diesel]

How large of a tank you will hold?

 

[Annahra]

You dose the big three based on your water chemistry and the trace elements based on calcium consumption. You may or may not need to dose daily depending on where you are starting and what in your tank is consuming alk.

I just started the Red Sea program a few weeks ago and I've been testing at least every other day before dosing.

 

[lickyricky]

How large of a tank you will hold?

45 gallons

 

[Diesel]

Nice size!
In most cases you can keep the three elements ( ALK, CAL, MAG) at bay with a good water change schedule, hand dosing can help you out as well.
But you need to understand that you can't dose without knowing where your levels are, there for you need some good decent test kits before you ever start thinking about dosing.

 

[PiscesPower]

I've been using the Reef Care Program for about 2 months. I dose the Alkalinity, NoPox and Calcium daily with my dosing pump. I do Reef Energy 3 times a week (I also spot feed my corals once a week or so with Nano Frenzy & Reef Roids). I dose the 4 trace elements on the week opposite my water change, my coral colors are great and since I don't test them I feel a bit hesitant to dose them more often.

I have LPS, Zoas and softies, just one SPS a stylophora. I don't dose Magnesium with my doser, to be honest I have had not had to dose it ever and it runs on the high side. I do use Coral Sea Pro Salt and change 4 gallons every OTHER week on about 25g net volume. I have a pretty hefty skimmer, but I do feed pretty aggressively and my corals and anemones grow like weeds. Nitrates are at zero (I removed filter socks a few weeks ago to get them up a bit more) and Phosphates last week were 0.12. Red Sea kits for Nitrate / Phos. Hannah checkers for Alk & Ca.

Now, with all that being said, I am getting a new bigger tank next week and plan to try using Triton method. I do find with ALL the different things Red Sea can be a bit over complicated.

All this is my personal experience.

I would definitely stick to schedule until you get a feel for your tank and the uptake. A dosing pump does make life so much easier. If Triton doesn't work for me as well as Red Sea or better, I will definitely go back to Reef Care program.

 

[Damien Buckley]

I've been using the Reef Care Program for about 2 months. I dose the Alkalinity, NoPox and Calcium daily with my dosing pump. I do Reef Energy 3 times a week (I also spot feed my corals once a week or so with Nano Frenzy & Reef Roids). I dose the 4 trace elements on the week opposite my water change, my coral colors are great and since I don't test them I feel a bit hesitant to dose them more often.

I have LPS, Zoas and softies, just one SPS a stylophora. I don't dose Magnesium with my doser, to be honest I have had not had to dose it ever and it runs on the high side. I do use Coral Sea Pro Salt and change 4 gallons every OTHER week on about 25g net volume. I have a pretty hefty skimmer, but I do feed pretty aggressively and my corals and anemones grow like weeds. Nitrates are at zero (I removed filter socks a few weeks ago to get them up a bit more) and Phosphates last week were 0.12. Red Sea kits for Nitrate / Phos. Hannah checkers for Alk & Ca.

Now, with all that being said, I am getting a new bigger tank next week and plan to try using Triton method. I do find with ALL the different things Red Sea can be a bit over complicated.

All this is my personal experience.

I would definitely stick to schedule until you get a feel for your tank and the uptake. A dosing pump does make life so much easier. If Triton doesn't work for me as well as Red Sea or better, I will definitely go back to Reef Care program.

How much Coral Colors do you dose given you're adding them weekly? I'm running the RS program too but adding Reef Energy daily. I cut back to only adding Coral Colors A as I'm using Coral Pro salt & Triton testing showed everything was up to the correct levels with the exception of Iodine & Bromide which are basically Colors A. I have this now 1ml/d in a 250l Reefer but adding 3ml of the other Colors supplements weekly as a minor top-up.

 

[PiscesPower]

How much Coral Colors do you dose given you're adding them weekly? I'm running the RS program too but adding Reef Energy daily. I cut back to only adding Coral Colors A as I'm using Coral Pro salt & Triton testing showed everything was up to the correct levels with the exception of Iodine & Bromide which are basically Colors A. I have this now 1ml/d in a 250l Reefer but adding 3ml of the other Colors supplements weekly as a minor top-up.

My tank is small at 24g so I only dose .3ml of each. I don't have any sps other than a stylo, and my Ca uptake is not really aggressive. I am only dosing 1 ml of Ca a day and Ca is typically in the 460 range. Once the new tank RSR 250 as well is set up I am going to send Triton, I'd really like to know what I should be dosing.

 

[Damien Buckley]

My tank is small at 24g so I only dose .3ml of each. I don't have any sps other than a stylo, and my Ca uptake is not really aggressive. I am only dosing 1 ml of Ca a day and Ca is typically in the 460 range. Once the new tank RSR 250 as well is set up I am going to send Triton, I'd really like to know what I should be dosing.

You'll love the 250. I've done two Triton tests so far - a few months apart - it's just good to get a handle on how accurate your test kits are and also to check for stuff you can't really see with normal test kits.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

You dose the big three based on your water chemistry and the trace elements based on calcium consumption.

Which itself doesn't really make sense for many tanks. It assumes that trace element depletion somehow is tied to the growth rate of coral skeletons, but it obviously isn't since in many tanks, the biggest drivers of trace element depletion (based on the amount of tissue grown) are other photosynthetic organisms, such as soft corals, anemones, or algae (macro and micro).

 

[Annahra]

Which itself doesn't really make sense for many tanks. It assumes that trace element depletion somehow is tied to the growth rate of coral skeletons, but it obviously isn't since in many tanks, the biggest drivers of trace element depletion (based on the amount of tissue grown) are other photosynthetic organisms, such as soft corals, anemones, or algae (macro and micro).

But it's better than nothing, right? By their very definition, trace elements exist in amounts so small they're difficult to test. Do you not test? Do you test even though the ideal range may be within the margin of error?

Or do you do more frequent water changes?

I feel like a lot of dosing is just guesswork and voodoo, so this at least has some sort of science behind it. But I'm not disagreeing with you per se.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

But it's better than nothing, right? By their very definition, trace elements exist in amounts so small they're difficult to test. Do you not test? Do you test even though the ideal range may be within the margin of error?

Or do you do more frequent water changes?

I feel like a lot of dosing is just guesswork and voodoo, so this at least has some sort of science behind it. But I'm not disagreeing with you per se.

It may be better than nothing, or it might not. lol

I agree that there is a lot of trial and error in dosing of trace elements by most people.

If you already have an excess of something in that mix, it may not be desirable. If you are severely deficient, it may not be helping even if dosed if the dose is too small to be effective.

I have not traditionally tested or dosed most trace elements, but it can be done for some of them with methods such as ICP, which I have done.

I do dose iron and it is rapidly depleted.

I changed 1% water daily to export and import those things which are being depleted or accumulating.

 

[Damien Buckley]

Following up on what Randy has touched on there - the Red Sea program is really comprehensive but I wouldn't assume anything in terms of dosing and would test/measure carefully.

For example, in a 250l tank I dose the following:

17ml/d Foundation A
106ml/d Foundation B (powder stock solution)
5ml/d Nopox
1ml/d Coral Colors A

Two consecutive Triton tests show all the various trace elements are more or less right based on this so no Coral Colors B/C/D. I think there are enough of the other elements - potassium, boron etc - in the Coral Pro salt Im using. If I were using blue bucket this equation might be very different.

Randy might correct me but it seems there's no really accurate way to test for iron due to it binding to other elements more or less immediately. I quit dosing that after having a big battle with GHA and being advised to stop Coral Colors by the guys who make Vibrant.

So, I guess my point is, use the program but check with an occasional Triton test. Don't assume the Red Sea recipe is correct ongoing. I do think they are a good idea and a great starting point though.

 

[Centerline]

I plan on mostly keeping LPS/soft and maybe some zoas. 3-4 fish

So it wouldn't be a bad thing to dose this daily?

I use the coral colors and N0P0x in my SPS tank with great results but I'm not at all sure you need the "colors" for LPS especially if your salt already adds them. With SPS I have see much deeper blues, purples, reds etc. so subjectively I'm a believer. With LPS the demands may be much lower. And my personal experience with LPS is that they need some nutrients for health and coloration. So food may be more important than trace elements. With respect to Cal/Alk/Mg everyone above who mentioned testing to find the correct levels is spot on. Every tank really does seem to be a bit different from the next in terms of uptake so good weekly testing schedule might be helpful. One thing about N0P0x to remember is that it is VERY good at removing nitrates - LPS like nitrates so start slowly with it until you get your feeding / N0P0x ratio dialed in. Getting into a solid testing schedule should help you get a good understanding of what's happening in your tank and help avoid killing stock.

 

[1stNoel]

I use the Red Sea program. I would caution two things when using their system:

1. It is a guide and not an absolute. For example, my tank doesn't go through Mg enough to require daily dosing. In fact, I haven't needed to add Mg for several months. I do need to supplemet Ca & KH on a daily basis. The trace elements I add 10 mLs every three days, as opposed to 3.3 mLs daily (these are based on my tank's Ca intake).
2. Don't shoot for a KH number. What I mean by this is your tank will tell you where it's comfortable. Mine likes to be around 7.6. I tried to push for higher KH in accordance with their mixed reef recommendations, and every time I did my SPS did not like it.

 

[StevenS01]

I use the Red Sea program. I would caution two things when using their system:

1. It is a guide and not an absolute. For example, my tank doesn't go through Mg enough to require daily dosing. In fact, I haven't needed to add Mg for several months. I do need to supplemet Ca & KH on a daily basis. The trace elements I add 10 mLs every three days, as opposed to 3.3 mLs daily (these are based on my tank's Ca intake).
2. Don't shoot for a KH number. What I mean by this is your tank will tell you where it's comfortable. Mine likes to be around 7.6. I tried to push for higher KH in accordance with their mixed reef recommendations, and every time I did my SPS did not like it.

I’m having trouble balancing my dKH and calcium with the Red Sea program.

 

[Chris8232]

I’m having trouble balancing my dKH and calcium with the Red Sea program.

Start with 1 to 1. I ended up at .5 dKH to 1 cal. I only use Red Sea cal , alk, mag. I dose prodibio products biweekly as recommend for trace

 

[StevenS01]

Start with 1 to 1. I ended up at .5 dKH to 1 cal. I only use Red Sea cal , alk, mag. I dose prodibio products biweekly as recommend for trace

Dosing 1 ml of alk/cal?