Quick question

[tgfitz1]

Hi, I'm new here.

I very recently bought a second hand Fluval M90 that had recently been shut down, he also gave me 10kg of live rock that he had been using in this tank for about a year. It's been set up for 5 days now and the last couple of days I've been testing the water. The results were identical both times and showed ammonia at 0, nitrite at 0, and nitrate at around 20. Surely this is very early to be showing nitrates? Has my tank been 'pre-cycled' as it were, by the mature rock? It was out of water for about a week, but I put it in the tank while very damp and it's covered in coralline. I am willing to be as patient as I need to be and am just curious as what to do next. CUC? Wait for an ammonia spike?

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Tom

 

[redfishbluefish]

If I were to guess, I'd say most likely not. The nitrate is likely leaching out of the rock. Have you "fed" the cycle with ammonia or a dead shrimp?

Oh, and welcome to R2R.

 

[brandon429]

comsider:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/n...d-cocktail-shrimp-live-rock-no-shrimp.214618/

Group b live rock and desiccation are in play here

 

[brandon429]

A digestion test can tell.

 

[recess62]

From my reading here live rock that has been allowed to dry out is no longer live rock. It needs to be cured. I got damp live rock shipped and was told the rock will have a die off. The reason your parameters are 0 may be because you may not have enough Ammonia load yet to generate a cycle. One thing you can do is dose your tank with a known amount of ammonia and see if the tank converts it. That is what I did. I added enough Amonia to get the level to 20. When that amount wAs digested in 24 hrs the tanks was cycling.

 

[brandon429]

Ha! I think I missed the clause "shut down" lol nice call. I didn't see the rock had been out of water. I wonder if it was out long enough to desiccate? Moist might not do it, true lr is very porous

Since the bacteria are now in question with that little clue, the digestion tests from the thread can certainly tell us. The final say in discerning if X substrate is ready is being able to digest 2-3 ppm dosed free ammonia to zero in 24 hours, a few times as proof. If the rock can do that, it never dried out enough to kill the bacteria. It's not about the current ammonia being zero, it's the number of times it can process to zero in 24 hours, the dynamic change is the indicator.

If by slim slim chance the moist rock didn't lose its bacteria, it'll be by water retention and by death of surrounding animals while out of water (their death = ammonia= bac feed in proximity)

 

[recess62]

A little off topic but the wealth of information of this site is incredible. Read. read. read. You will learn much

 

[melypr1985]

Welcome to R2R!

 

[tgfitz1]

Thank you everyone, this is all very useful. Brandon, for example my rock is able to digest 2-3ppm ammonia in 24 hours a few times, is this a completed cycle? And I could add a CUC? And if I dose ammonia and it stays up, I should assume that I've just pushed the cycle into motion?

Recess, I agree, the amount of things that I will no doubt implement in the future that I've learnt from my short time on here is incredible. So many knowledgable people that are so willing to share their experience. It should hopefully make this hobby very manageable for me!

 

[recess62]

If your ammonia and nitrites are 0 after a digestion test you should be good to go. Some on here recommend a few days of consecutive ammonia challenge just to be sure you are cycled. Yes adding ammonia provides food for nitrifying bacteria and will help your cycle

 

[tgfitz1]

Okay I will definitely give that a go. When you say digestion test, I imagine you mean feeding an empty tank? Can I use any kind of marine food or is there a particular food that works better?

 

[recess62]

From what I have read adding a known amount of ammonia is a good way to analyze the cycle hence adding ammonia chloride. If your testing shows 0/0 after a few days of repeated digestion test the. You can add the cuc. If you still have ammonia in your testing no need to add more till it is gone. Some here use raw shrimp and adding food to help with the cycle. I am an MD so I liked the more scientific approach. Since you have the potential of having bacterial activity from your "live rock". I would go with the ammonia digestion test. It probably does not make a difference just a personal preference

FYI. I am by no means an expert but just did this technique and it worked well for me. One thing I have learned is that there are multiple ways to achieve the same ends

 

[brandon429]

all agreed

the a chlrde is so that you don't have to wait for feed, or a shrimp to break down and denature yielding variable ammonia. you can have 2ppm within one calc dose

then zero in 24 hours a few times, ready. If indeed you have confirmed five days out of water with no recycle that needs to be detailed and documented. its that not its impossible to repeat, your rock would just do it again if this is indeed what occurred. its the rare conditions where it sat moist enough to carry over, and not benthic-packed enough to rot itself into a spiral, a play of balances happened here we should see the rock



Consider this
live rock already adapts to nine hours emersion time in many reefs, tides etc

five days + moisture luck variables is no stretch. coralline itself will tolerate that.

People get moist pack rock shipped from islands across the glove to save shipping weight and the rock always arrives with live bacteria...because it had moisture and likely local dieoff (ammonia pump) from animals formerly underwater now in moist air, in the shipping container.

I had originally missed the fact your rock was in air a while in my first type, thought it was a standard tank transfer of group b rocks from my pics

one opinion paragraph from the thread still holds, and you may be close to confirming or disconfirming: bacteria are the toughest, most adapted creatures in our tanks 1st, all else comes after. they'll take nearly anything you throw at them shy of true desiccation, and chem assaults. emersion was long assumed to be a sterilizer, its not. I wonder how close you rode the line

 

[tgfitz1]

Thank you both. I will definitely give this method a go. I do like the sound of knowing exactly how much ammonia I'm putting into the tank. Where can I find ammonium chloride?

Yes that's very true. So it could be hit or miss whether or not I still have a sufficient amount of bacteria to support life. I will give this digestion test a go and let you know how I get on!

 

[recess62]

You can find the AC in most hardware stores. Just be sure it does not have any additives or soap

Good luck you are almost there

Keep us informed.

 

[tgfitz1]

I'll look at getting some over the next couple days then. Until then will it work if I feed marine flake? And will I need to use a lot of it to get a build up of ammonia?

I appreciate your time.