LBReefer
Well-Known Member
You are spot on about adding rocks first. In theory you can try and force the rocks to the tank floor, but that is easier said than done.
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IslandLifeReef
Valuable Member
@Rscott, I think you are being a little harsh on the advice you have gotten on this forum. Everyone is trying to help as far as I can tell. I, for one, think that adding sand first and then burying the rock in it later isn't a problem and have done this on my current tank and other tanks.
As for the skimmer, your situation was different. You were using a method that told you to use a skimmer. Not everyone is familiar with every cycling method out there. I think it is the person asking for help to provide all relevant information, not our responsibility to drag it out of the poster. If you aren't dosing NoPoX, a skimmer is not needed to cycle a tank. However, it may help it break in quicker if you do run it during the cycle.
As someone who took the time to read many of your different threads to try to help you and someone who told you to be patient, I am surprised that you are complaining about the advice you received.
Apparently you misunderstood my post.
Thank you for just verifying to the OP that in some cases a skimmer is needed.
However, I disagree, on me being harsh. I’m not being harsh at all. I am Playing devils advocate.
To simply say it’s not the responsibility of the person giving advice to get all the facts is Ludacris in my opinion. If someone on the forum feels qualified to give advice on such a complicated hobby before they do so I would think any logical person would want to know all that they can. If I give someone advice on something I’m an expert at especially a costly piece of advice I try to be very cautious as to not cause the advice received an undo harm.
That doesn’t mean it’s malicious, but perhaps the advice giver as you state does not have all the facts and causes a tank crash on someone?
As you stated, I have received great feedback on many of my posts and I have also received terrible recommendations that fortunately others have come and vetoed.
My point to the OP is simply that this is a public forum. A wonderful public forum with an incomprehensible amount of information given by reefers with levels of knowledge I can only dream of and total rookies alike.
Getting opinions and thoughts on here is an incredibly valuable resource but I am simply saying, you should take the same approach we use in aviation. Trust but verify. If my co pilot tells me that the landing gear is down, I trust him, but I still look at the lever to make sure it’s down.
I don’t want to hijack the OP’s thread. But I also think what I’m saying has a valid purpose. Trust but verify the advice you are given. For every great suggestion I get on here including the excellent suggestions you have made to me, I also get a few that are off the charts Ludacris and should I have followed them I would be in bigger trouble then I already am
That’s all I’m saying... Trust but verify
Back to the question at hand. Will adding rock or sand first destroy the tank? Of course not, but there are good arguments for both ways.
Matter of fact, there is a huge post about it if you search. When I had this exact question I searched for it and found tons of info.
The skimmer needed? As you and I have both stated, it depends on the type of cycle.
Good luck to the OP and this is just intended to be food for thought. Not harsh as you are understanding it to be
Crashjack
Well-Known Member
The fact is, you can do however you like. There are pros and cons to any method. Adding the sand first not only will help bacteria grow on the sand, it will also allow you to remove a lot of fine particles (cloudiness) with mechanical filtration if you want. You can either move sand aside for rock or push the rock down. One “con” to any method with adding water before rock is that you don’t know how much waster the sand will displace so you could have to remove water or add a lot more. Another issue is that water evaporates but salt doesn’t. Adding water days in advance will cause salinity to increase unless you are topping-off.
The bottom-line is, it doesn’t really matter, it just alters the things you will have to deal with.
The bottom-line is, it doesn’t really matter, it just alters the things you will have to deal with.
IslandLifeReef
Valuable Member
Apparently you misunderstood my post.
Thank you for just verifying to the OP that in some cases a skimmer is needed.
However, I disagree, on me being harsh. I’m not being harsh at all. I am Playing devils advocate.
To simply say it’s not the responsibility of the person giving advice to get all the facts is Ludacris in my opinion. If someone on the forum feels qualified to give advice on such a complicated hobby before they do so I would think any logical person would want to know all that they can. If I give someone advice on something I’m an expert at especially a costly piece of advice I try to be very cautious as to not cause the advice received an undo harm.
That doesn’t mean it’s malicious, but perhaps the advice giver as you state does not have all the facts and causes a tank crash on someone?
As you stated, I have received great feedback on many of my posts and I have also received terrible recommendations that fortunately others have come and vetoed.
My point to the OP is simply that this is a public forum. A wonderful public forum with an incomprehensible amount of information given by reefers with levels of knowledge I can only dream of and total rookies alike.
Getting opinions and thoughts on here is an incredibly valuable resource but I am simply saying, you should take the same approach we use in aviation. Trust but verify. If my co pilot tells me that the landing gear is down, I trust him, but I still look at the lever to make sure it’s down.
I don’t want to hijack the OP’s thread. But I also think what I’m saying has a valid purpose. Trust but verify the advice you are given. For every great suggestion I get on here including the excellent suggestions you have made to me, I also get a few that are off the charts Ludacris and should I have followed them I would be in bigger trouble then I already am
That’s all I’m saying... Trust but verify
Back to the question at hand. Will adding rock or sand first destroy the tank? Of course not, but there are good arguments for both ways.
Matter of fact, there is a huge post about it if you search. When I had this exact question I searched for it and found tons of info.
The skimmer needed? As you and I have both stated, it depends on the type of cycle.
Good luck to the OP and this is just intended to be food for thought. Not harsh as you are understanding it to be
We can disagree whether you are being a little harsh or not.
There are many different ways to succeed in this hobby, as well as ways to fail.
Speaking for myself, I don't have the time to ask someone requesting advice for every possible scenario they may be using in their tank. I think it is up to them to give me as much relevant information as they can.
Do you go over every item on your co-pilot's preflight and ask him if he completed it and then go and look at it to verify whether or not it was really completed? At some point we all have to be responsible for ourselves.
How would you verify the information you get on this forum? Why not just go to the verifying source first instead of asking here?
Complaining about advice you get on a free forum, in my opinion, is insulting to those who are using their time to try to help.
If the OP wants to provide any additional information, the advice they receive may or may not change.
I'm not worried about collapse, I'm planing on mocking my rock out and epoxying it. So not worried about that.
I appreciate all advice, I've been around the internet long enough to not believe all I read on the internet, but as pointed out it's a hobby everyone has their way of doing it.
I appreciate all advice, I've been around the internet long enough to not believe all I read on the internet, but as pointed out it's a hobby everyone has their way of doing it.
We can disagree whether you are being a little harsh or not.
There are many different ways to succeed in this hobby, as well as ways to fail.
Speaking for myself, I don't have the time to ask someone requesting advice for every possible scenario they may be using in their tank. I think it is up to them to give me as much relevant information as they can.
Do you go over every item on your co-pilot's preflight and ask him if he completed it and then go and look at it to verify whether or not it was really completed? At some point we all have to be responsible for ourselves.
How would you verify the information you get on this forum? Why not just go to the verifying source first instead of asking here?
Complaining about advice you get on a free forum, in my opinion, is insulting to those who are using their time to try to help.
If the OP wants to provide any additional information, the advice they receive may or may not change.
Haha I've got a pretty basic setup 29g tank live sand, fluval 50 filter. Running Seachem Stability as per directions. As far as lighting I'm using the led bar that came with the hood for now.
Good I’m happy to hear that
I was torn on epoxy myself. Many say that they don’t like epoxy rocks because of you need to remove a difficult customer later like an encrusting monti that is growing out of control it’s muxh harder to do so.
At the end of the day I choose to epoxy mine because I was building complex shapes
Good luck, looking forward to pics
Also, the person above that stated you may need to remove water is spot on. If you add the rock after you don’t exactly know it’s volume so be prepared to pull some out if needed
IslandLifeReef
Valuable Member
You are fine without a skimmer for now. With that size system, you may not need one. You could manage nutrient levels with water changes.
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Sand first, then water, then liquid bacteria, then Live rock. Let all settle and see how long it takes tank to clear ( indicator how effective your filter will be)
