Quite overflow with one rtn pump but loud with two pumps???

[Bodyguard]

Hello All

I recently installed a second return pump (I'm running a Varios-2 and a Varios-4). With only one of the two pumps running my water flow into my overflow is very quite. When I turn on the second pump and adjust the flow return speeds to basically be what one pump is at max, I cannot for the life of me get the water going into the over flow to be quite. Sounds like a little water fall. I have tried adjusting the gate valve for my main return to slow the flow but still get the loud flow into the box. For my overflow setup I essentially copied what the BRS160 is. Bean animal with a emergency. Has anyone had success running a quite overflow with two pumps? I just can't understand why when I have one pump running its quite, but when I drop the speed on both to essential equal the output of one the flow is very noisy.

 

[Water Dog]

What overflow are you using? Sounds like you are getting the waterfall effect noise from water rushing too quickly through your weir teeth and/or the noise of water rushing from the internal weir box to the external drain box. If you’re using the Synergy Shadow or Eshopps style overflows, this waterfall effect is magnified because the external box height is lower than the internal box making the waterfall noise worse.

Since most are using dual return pumps for redundancy, have you tried lowering both pump speeds in order to slow down the flow rate to quiet down the waterfall noise?

 

[Bodyguard]

Water Dog
I'm using a ESHOPS-L. Yes your are correct. The water is rushing too quick through the weir and through the internal weir to the overflow box with the two pumps running.

I have lowered my pump speeds to their lowest settings and still too loud. :/

I did have a thought this AM. I can try to create more pressure in the main drain in order to create the siphon by lowering the main drain line by an inch or so in the sump. This in theory should cause the water in the overflow box to slow down with the additional required pressure to create the siphon. My main drain and Durso drain sit about an 1/2" below the water line in the sump.

The other option is to install a mat in the weir to minimize the fall distance which I don't want to do.

I'll post my results later this evening.

 

[Buffalou]

I'm running 2 varios -6 at 50% with synergy shadow, and beane setup with separate return line to and no noise, it took awhile to dial it in my emergency line is wide open and no valve , the two other lines have gate valve installed that I adjusted for correct return flow with no noise. Again. it took awhile with very small adjustments but it's silent and works. You should be able to close off your valves to do the same. Do you have separate valves on both main return lines?

 

[Water Dog]

Do you have any room in the external drain box to raise the secondary trickle line and emergency open channel? The rationale being to reduce the distance that the water has to fall from the internal weir box to the external drain box in order to reduce the waterfall noise effect.

As far as increasing the depth of the full siphon drain line into the sump, I think making it deeper will only serve to make it harder to purge all the air out of the full siphon line making it noisier upon start up because of added back pressure the deeper the line sits.

 

[Bodyguard]

Do you have any room in the external drain box to raise the secondary trickle line and emergency open channel? The rationale being to reduce the distance that the water has to fall from the internal weir box to the external drain box in order to reduce the waterfall noise effect.

As far as increasing the depth of the full siphon drain line into the sump, I think making it deeper will only serve to make it harder to purge all the air out of the full siphon line making it noisier upon start up because of added back pressure the deeper the line sits.

I do have room but made the rookie mistake of gluing them in place. I couldn't remember if I did and tried to pull them out with no luck. I definitely thought to do that as well.

The hope/theory is since there is more pressure/flow running through the weir into the overflow box that it shouldn't have an issue pushing the air out of the line. Will post my results this evening.

 

[Bodyguard]

I'm running 2 varios -6 at 50% with synergy shadow, and beane setup with separate return line to and no noise, it took awhile to dial it in my emergency line is wide open and no valve , the two other lines have gate valve installed that I adjusted for correct return flow with no noise. Again. it took awhile with very small adjustments but it's silent and works. You should be able to close off your valves to do the same. Do you have separate valves on both main return lines?

I copied/mimic what the BRS folks did on their BRS160 build which has the one gate valve on the main drain.

 

[Bodyguard]

I copied/mimic what the BRS folks did on their BRS160 build which has the one gate valve on the main drain.

I just tried my theory of extending the return lines below the water line in the sump and to no avail it did not work. I was able to get the siphon going but still noisy going through the weir.

Buffalou - You mentioned you run a Beane but with a separate return line. What is this separate return? Both my pumps are have their own return line to the DT. Do you run your returns the same to the DT?

I'm thinking about putting in the additional gate valve on my secondary drain to my sump. This is my current setup

 

[ca1ore]

How do you know the two pumps are set to be the flow equivalent of just the one? The only explanation for noisier is more total flow. That overflow is a lousy design, and quite prone to noise as you increase flow.

 

[Buffalou]

I just tried my theory of extending the return lines below the water line in the sump and to no avail it did not work. I was able to get the siphon going but still noisy going through the weir.

Buffalou - You mentioned you run a Beane but with a separate return line. What is this separate return? Both my pumps are have their own return line to the DT. Do you run your returns the same to the DT?

I'm thinking about putting in the additional gate valve on my secondary drain to my sump. This is my current setup

I have separate returns to both sump and DT with valves on each line to adjust flow as needed or to close for maintenance. So one pump goes to DT on left side and one to right side. From overflow box each line has separate run to sump, only the emergency line has no valve because I don't want to restrict that at all. Hope I explained and it makes sense.

 

[Buffalou]

It also appears from photo that your secondary return is really close to main return it doesn't give you a lot of room for tuning your system.

 

[GlassMunky]

Try removing that U Pipe on your main drain so it’s just the bulkhead. That will give you more distance between your main and trickle drain.
that was part of my problem when I initially setup my bean animal overflow

 

[Bodyguard]

I have separate returns to both sump and DT with valves on each line to adjust flow as needed or to close for maintenance. So one pump goes to DT on left side and one to right side. From overflow box each line has separate run to sump, only the emergency line has no valve because I don't want to restrict that at all. Hope I explained and it makes sense.

That is how I have my setup. Just need that second gate valve

 

[KStatefan]

Why do you want to install a gate valve on your secondary?

 

[Bodyguard]

Why do you want to install a gate valve on your secondary?

Buffalou mentioned above that he had success getting his flow through his weir into this overflow box quite with the use of a second gate valve on the secondary (Durso) drain. I haven't gone through with adding the valve in my system just yet. I'm just trying to get feedback from those who have had success running to return pumps and maintain the flows to be quite.

 

[Bodyguard]

It also appears from photo that your secondary return is really close to main return it doesn't give you a lot of room for tuning your system.

How does this cause a issue? I'm not sure I understand why it would have a negative effect. The Durso drain does sit higher than the main drain.

 

[Bodyguard]

How do you know the two pumps are set to be the flow equivalent of just the one? The only explanation for noisier is more total flow. That overflow is a lousy design, and quite prone to noise as you increase flow.

How is this a "lousy" design??? I mimic it from the BRS160 build (except I have two pumps).

 

[ReefBeta]

You just need to open the gate valve more, since your overflow increased. If the gate valve is already fully opened, it means your overflow pipe capacity is not enough for your return flow.

 

[ReefBeta]

Couple more thing.

First, your lowest pipe in overflow don't actually need that U elbow. It's more useful to have a screen in there the prevent it getting blocked.

Second, you should drill a small hole in the secondary pipe's U elbow to silence it more. It's the same thing as durso overflow.

 

[Bodyguard]

Couple more thing.

First, your lowest pipe in overflow don't actually need that U elbow. It's more useful to have a screen in there the prevent it getting blocked.

Second, you should drill a small hole in the secondary pipe's U elbow to silence it more. It's the same thing as durso overflow.

PNW! WA is my home state.

I do have a small hole drilled in the secondary pipe.

I've tried removing the main drain "U" but with no luck. I'm pretty I didn't glue that sucker in there but it's not coming out. I'm thinking when I glued in the under side some of the glue pushed up and cemented the "U" side plumbing. Not too happy about that.