Radion/MH Reassurance Needed

[rockskimmerflow]

I'll say this... I've been doing this professionally from the time when LEDs were first being whispered about as the next great thing, so not nearly as long as many of the old salts that are here. I was ready to embrace LEDS, but for me aquariums are about aesthetics and when my clients tell me they want something that makes them feel like they're on a real reef somewhere there is no comparison for halides. I've never walked up to a tank lit with only LED and not been able to tell it was an LED driven system. Now, I do have clients with 100 percent LED tanks and the corals grow and thrive once I have the fixtures dialed in. At the end of the day, though, I can't say that I would ever recommend a purely LED based system over a halide + fluorescent + an RB LED bar based lighting array unless there were major overriding priorities for heat, power consumption, form factor, etc. This is not an inexpensive hobby by any means and to cut corners on visual aesthetics like perfect color blending, diffusion, natural soft shimmer, spectrum, etc just to save a buck seems nuts to me. The beauty of the hobby is that for those who have specific goals for their tanks that preclude halides then there are a plethora of viable LED and fluorescent options on the market to suit their needs.

 

[uglyman]

Oh so does biggles know your thinking about leds.........I hope not for your sake ;Nailbiting

Hehe anyway I am running radion g2's on my sps system and love them and I'm also running a g3 pro on a nano and it's doing well so far and I do like the radions but I have noticed something on my G3 pro which is worrying and I have seen this on other brands. What I have noticed is burnt out lenses on the UV diodes and also melting of the TIR lenses on the UV and some of the Blue leds (not royal blue). So after seeing this issue on my g3 I thought that it being second hand maybe it was from previous owner, but I have been watching ads on ebay for second hand G3's and when checking pictures on these ads I have noticed the same burnt lenses on the UV diodes.

So as much as I love the radions I have concerns, is it the old gens and maybe the new gen 4 is problem free or could it go the same way as the G3's, now considering the cost of these lights this is something I worry about.

 

[Wrangy]

Oh so does biggles know your thinking about leds.........I hope not for your sake ;Nailbiting

Hehe anyway I am running radion g2's on my sps system and love them and I'm also running a g3 pro on a nano and it's doing well so far and I do like the radions but I have noticed something on my G3 pro which is worrying and I have seen this on other brands. What I have noticed is burnt out lenses on the UV diodes and also melting of the TIR lenses on the UV and some of the Blue leds (not royal blue). So after seeing this issue on my g3 I thought that it being second hand maybe it was from previous owner, but I have been watching ads on ebay for second hand G3's and when checking pictures on these ads I have noticed the same burnt lenses on the UV diodes.

So as much as I love the radions I have concerns, is it the old gens and maybe the new gen 4 is problem free or could it go the same way as the G3's, now considering the cost of these lights this is something I worry about.

No I haven't told him and I certainly wouldn't! Haha
Interesting about the burnt uv diodes Hopefully that's not an issue with the 4's

 

[Wrangy]

So I've made some further decisions. I've decided not to change the lights too much (focusing on fish instead) I'm going to add another led strip and upgrade the t5's to 3ft tubes

I was never worried about the capabilities of the Radions I know they're just as good as halides, different but just as good. It's just too large an outlay that I want to use on fish instead Haha

I'll be swapping to Radions only on the frag tank as I really want to see what happens!

 

[madweazl]

.. Take everything that I say for what it is worth - I have seen a lot of nice tanks all over the country and I walk into Vivid or WWC and think "this tank is 75-80% of what it could be..." but I also would probably do it the same way if I was a retail store and not a hobbyist.

Some of his issues have been mitigated with the newer generation lights. The lenses are better and they have the diffuser kits which have made a difference for people. So 1-3 of his concerns are better, to what extent I don't know.

Edit: Beginning at 4:02, the user in this video noted a significant difference after installing the diffusers.

...What I have noticed is burnt out lenses on the UV diodes and also melting of the TIR lenses on the UV and some of the Blue leds (not royal blue).

The lenses are fine but if you lay them flat on a surface (e.g. table) with the lights on, they will start to melt immediately. As long as you avoid doing that (I always placed them up on their sides), they wont melt the lenses.

 

[A. grandis]

Excuse-me.
If you actually talk to Dr. Sanjay he will let you know the truth, as jda posted.
The last time I've spoke with Dr. Sanjay he also told me his corals were dying under because of the shading from the LEDs. With the halides they weren't that bad in that respect.
I agree 100% on the fact that ida brought up about the "this tank is 75-80% of what it could be".
Also agree on the " but I also would probably do it the same way if I was a retail store and not a hobbyist.".
When you are in the business you want to sell what's up for the sales. If you emphasize something that is selling, then it will work in your favor. When you get a tremendous deal, that adds up even more and you'll have a great relationship with that company!!! Just pure business. Facts! Nothing wrong...
The fact that many say their tanks are "just doing fine" with any LED system, or "great", or "they love them", or whatever... doesn't mean that it is actually the very best you can offer to your reef. It's just an option. Many of them don't even know about halides or T5s.

Many variables come in mind when we talking about lighting a reef tank, but when comparing halides to LEDs as a primary source of light is like comparing a Bug to a Mustang. Both will take you some place, but the Mustang will give you more of anything in the comparison.

I'll say this again:
There is a special magic when you have the halide with a nice chiller running, if you need one.
Priceless for your tank.
The corals will love you forever.

It is truth that many people total don't care much of having a reef tank thriving at it's best. The cartoon names and blue lights are the fashion nowadays. It's a shame.

I'm still alive!
Peace!

 

[A. grandis]

Don't do it. For the people who know what Radium can do, they never seem to be satisfied unless there is some overarching princile that they care about more (like retail store switching to sell more units, or like to impress people with thunderstorms). There is all kinds of stuff out there if you sort through he fanbodydom and find real experiences about people who switch - for example, people look at Dr. Joshi's tank and see a nice tank (and it is), but the forget about all of the millepora that he lost and the many colonies that died when he switched... he has chosen to live with these issues, but his tank was not what is was... it was better when he ran the Halides and he will tell you as much. Schnitzel has a great thread on leaving Radions and getting better results - it should be near the top of the SPS forum. I guess that my main caution would be to expect your tank to be different, and a ceiling of about 75-80% of the ceiling that you have now - if you like something else about the Radions that overcomes this lower ceiling, then that is a great reason to have them... but don't get mad if color changes, stuff starts to die from the bottom up and your tank is still not the same.

If you do decide to do it, keep your current setup for at least a year. Chances are that you will be putting it back on in some capacity - while it will not be able to grow back the shadowing underside death that is sure to come (if you have colonies), it can get you mostly back to where you were.

Hey jda, could you please post the link for the Schnitzel's thread?

 

[Breadman03]

Hey jda, could you please post the link for the Schnitzel's thread?

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/schnitzels-sps.241089/

 

[DSC reef]

Excuse-me.
If you actually talk to Dr. Sanjay he will let you know the truth, as jda posted.
The last time I've spoke with Dr. Sanjay he also told me his corals were dying under because of the shading from the LEDs. With the halides they weren't that bad in that respect.
I agree 100% on the fact that ida brought up about the "this tank is 75-80% of what it could be".
Also agree on the " but I also would probably do it the same way if I was a retail store and not a hobbyist.".
When you are in the business you want to sell what's up for the sales. If you emphasize something that is selling, then it will work in your favor. When you get a tremendous deal, that adds up even more and you'll have a great relationship with that company!!! Just pure business. Facts! Nothing wrong...
The fact that many say their tanks are "just doing fine" with any LED system, or "great", or "they love them", or whatever... doesn't mean that it is actually the very best you can offer to your reef. It's just an option. Many of them don't even know about halides or T5s.

Many variables come in mind when we talking about lighting a reef tank, but when comparing halides to LEDs as a primary source of light is like comparing a Bug to a Mustang. Both will take you some place, but the Mustang will give you more of anything in the comparison.

I'll say this again:
There is a special magic when you have the halide with a nice chiller running, if you need one.
Priceless for your tank.
The corals will love you forever.

It is truth that many people total don't care much of having a reef tank thriving at it's best. The cartoon names and blue lights are the fashion nowadays. It's a shame.

I'm still alive!
Peace!

Seriously? Now people who don't run halides don't care about having there reef tanks at there best? C'mon already. Also, has Sanjay gone back to halides or is he just letting his reef die? Maybe hes another person who doesn't care to have his reef at it's best. This rhetoric is so played out and old. Don't forget, I'm a halide user but these biases don't do any one good. Why cant you accept there are amazing tank with leds?

 

[Wrangy]

Excuse-me.
If you actually talk to Dr. Sanjay he will let you know the truth, as jda posted.
The last time I've spoke with Dr. Sanjay he also told me his corals were dying under because of the shading from the LEDs. With the halides they weren't that bad in that respect.
I agree 100% on the fact that ida brought up about the "this tank is 75-80% of what it could be".
Also agree on the " but I also would probably do it the same way if I was a retail store and not a hobbyist.".
When you are in the business you want to sell what's up for the sales. If you emphasize something that is selling, then it will work in your favor. When you get a tremendous deal, that adds up even more and you'll have a great relationship with that company!!! Just pure business. Facts! Nothing wrong...
The fact that many say their tanks are "just doing fine" with any LED system, or "great", or "they love them", or whatever... doesn't mean that it is actually the very best you can offer to your reef. It's just an option. Many of them don't even know about halides or T5s.

Many variables come in mind when we talking about lighting a reef tank, but when comparing halides to LEDs as a primary source of light is like comparing a Bug to a Mustang. Both will take you some place, but the Mustang will give you more of anything in the comparison.

I'll say this again:
There is a special magic when you have the halide with a nice chiller running, if you need one.
Priceless for your tank.
The corals will love you forever.

It is truth that many people total don't care much of having a reef tank thriving at it's best. The cartoon names and blue lights are the fashion nowadays. It's a shame.

I'm still alive!
Peace!

While I have to admit at the moment I enjoy my halides more than most other lighting they have their gaps as well and your LED bashing is really and truly unfounded. There's plenty of evidence out there on the abilities of LED lit tanks Maybe you've had a bad experience with them or only choose to see people moving away from LED's but 95% of the time that's down to user error and not the capabilities of the light source.

All lighting systems have their flaws and regardless of the type of lighting being used as the main source, most have a hybrid unit too. I don't see any halide only tanks but there are plenty of LED only tanks lol.

It's like comparing a Mustang and a Tesla, they're both equally as amazing but for totally different reasons and neither is necessarily better than the other for any of the reasons, just personal preference. I have zero concern about actually going LED only and I might still as the Radions are an amazing light but with the potential to get some fish that I've wanted for a long time, this is worth more to me than the initial outlay of the LED's.

 

[A. grandis]

LEDs came to stay, I know that.
I'm still not convinced they are what I would use.
Just my opinion.

 

[A. grandis]

And yes, I've seen amazing tanks with LEDs!
I've got friends with nice tanks with LEDs.
I just prefer T5s and or halides better.
Cheers!

 

[A. grandis]

This is for you guys to stop saying that I'm bashing LEDs. LOL!
Nice article that shows what it is and comes down to: preference.
https://reefbuilders.com/2018/07/09/white-corals-display-tank/

Nice tank!
I don't necessarily agree with te T5 bulb combo and think it could be much different, but still nice.
I personally prefer the growth under the T5s. Just me!
Cheers.

 

[DSC reef]

Here's a link to also show how well sanjay's corals look under radions.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/some-photos-of-sanjay-joshis-corals.351896/page-3#post-4893753

 

[A. grandis]

Thanks, man!

 

[A. grandis]

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/schnitzels-sps.241089/

Thanks very much for the link, Breadman03!

 

[Reefcowboy]

Radions are excellent fixtures, I ran them in my previous set up and they grow and color corals extremelly well. I still have an Orphek V3+ which is also an awesome fixture that brought me very good results.

I just set up a new system and decided to try back MH’s as I missed the results I got with them. Running radiums again and by watching the color development of some frags(with led results are still fresh in my mind) I must say WOW...halides are on a class of its own.
I hate the heat, but halides spoil me with color and how sps react to that type of light.