Radium vrs Radion

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Hi.

I have a small experiment I'm planning that utilizes two identical small tanks plumbed into my main system, each with a different light system. I intend to place one Red Planet of similar size in each tank and then utilize weight as a performance indicator. On one of the tanks Ill be running a 250 watt SE Radium and on the other a Radion Gen4 Pro with a light diffuser. As the Radium is advertised as a 20k bulb I assume that the only way to do a comparison is to run the Radion at 20k with the same par value and lighting period. OR should I use something know to work like one of the Coral Lab programs for the Radion? Additionally what am I missing with respect to the process here? Should I use more than one frag per tank to account for damage during the fragging process and then use the aggregate of the weights as the performance indicator? Is my Apex par meter accurate enough for the blue spectrum in the Radions?

Any advice would be welcome.

*Edited out the 150 Radium as I can't find one. So I'll be running a 250 SE.
 
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BRS
vanpire said:
Interested to see what you find.
Click to expand...
You and I both but I don't want the results questioned because of the Radion settings and I see that as the greatest opportunity to screw the experiment up. I've had corals explode with growth under LEDs and the same corals bleach right out after changing stuff without understanding what I was doing. So I'm going to need some help here.
 
Deltec
alton said:
Radium lamps are not 20K, if you can find an old Build my Led article/web page they copied what they thought matched the 20K Radium with a BML 20K XB LED fixture
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How are radium bulbs not 20k? If the led light looked bluer than the radium it doesn't mean it's not 20k. Not calling you out, just curious.
 
Deltec
alton said:
Radium lamps are not 20K, if you can find an old Build my Led article/web page they copied what they thought matched the 20K Radium with a BML 20K XB LED fixture
Click to expand...
I colored tempted a radium 2ok and it was in fact 20k.


I'd match spectrum as closely as possible as that sounds like what the experiment is intended for.
I'd use their 20k setting. It would be even better if you had a spectrometer.
 
saltyfilmfolks said:
I colored tempted a radium 2ok and it was in fact 20k.


I'd match spectrum as closely as possible as that sounds like what the experiment is intended for.
I'd use their 20k setting. It would be even better if you had a spectrometer.
Click to expand...
Where do I get a spectrometer ;)
 
Top Shelf Aquatics
saltyfilmfolks said:
I'd match spectrum as closely as possible as that sounds like what the experiment is intended for..
Click to expand...

Yes this is the intent. I have had remarkable short term results with Radions and Hydras. And lots of long term success with Radiums. I suggest that with the LED hotspots removed and the spectrum and relative par of a Radium 20k faithfully reproduced, growth will be similar.
 
Top Shelf Aquatics
saltyfilmfolks said:
Well yea. That's a peach!!

Dana riddle made a good reccomend here I belive. A bit more
Wallet friendly.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/if-youre-serious-about-lighting-know-this.312587/page-2
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I'm not at all sure I get this. If I just read the docs on the Apogee website correctly the MQ510 appears to be a rather nice PAR meter. However, it appears that I need a spectroradiometer to measure the peaks of the Radiums and then recreate that on the Radions. No?

@Dana Riddle
 
Centerline said:
I'm not at all sure I get this. If I just read the docs on the Apogee website correctly the MQ510 appears to be a rather nice PAR meter. However, it appears that I need a spectroradiometer to measure the peaks of the Radiums and then recreate that on the Radions. No?

@Dana Riddle
Click to expand...
You need a spectrometer to "see" the peaks in any light.

A par meter just gives you the total usable or active photons.
 
Nutramar Foods
Plumbing the two experimental tanks into a common sump is a smart idea - you can rule water chemistry values out of the equation. There is a lot to be learned from experiments such as these and I'd be interested in hearing the results. It sounds like you want to use weight as the metric for coral growth. There are some very good (and inexpensive) digital pocket balances that compare very well to the $1,500 lab balance I have. Let me know if you need a link. The real issue I see is comparing one 20K lamp (metal halide) to another 20K source (LEDs.) As you probably know, there are many mixtures of light that can arrive at a given K rating. If you matched K from one light source to another, an analysis of the light would show different spectral characteristics. This is not to say that the results are without value - just state what settings you used on the LEDs when comparing to the halide lamp. If you really, really want to get into this, get a spectrometer that has the ability to measure the spectral signatures and generate a K rating. With the Ocean Optics specs, this requires calibration to a known (NIST) light source and will set you back around $6,000. So, I would recommend simply defining the LED settings and visually matching the spectra. Other issues. I found that calcareous and other algae growths on the ceramic coral plugs could not be removed successfully without impacting weight measurements, so the experiments will be limited to perhaps 60 (maybe 90) day timeframe. Water motion can and will impact growth rates so used exactly the same pumps and pump/coral positions in each tank. Use as many frags as possible (I used 10 per light source experiment.) Having been through several sets of these types of experiments I think I can assist you with further questions you might have. Just let me know, and best of luck!
 
One other thing - the Radium's spectral signature will change over the coarse of the experiment. As for the Apex PAR sensor, it appears to me that the are provided by one supplier. I know that the PAR sensor I got from Spectrum Instruments is not manufactured by them. When I had technical questions, I was referred to the provider. Judging from the looks of PAR sensors from a half dozen retailers, I think I can safely say that many sensors come from a single manufacturer are simply re-branded. I suspect (but can't confirm) that using the same sensor in your experiments would have a minimal negative impact.
 
Nutramar Foods
I think this is a great idea!!
Maybe you should get a brand new Radium bulb with the best ballast that bulb would need for it's best performance and the best metal halide fixture/reflector. Each bulb also needs the right type of ballast recommended to keep spectrum, intensity and PAR.
You will probably need a cooler for this experiment and a heater to keep temp stable.
I think stability of the water params will be a must and you should do your best to achieve that although they will be in the same system.
Get the LED fixture and set for the best of what would be from the manufacturer as 20K.
Like Dana said, the chemistry will be out of the question and that's what matters the most, but I do hope you keep them stable.

Don't forget what Dana said about the water motion!!!
The water motion alone could turn the whole thing up side down and the results would be false!!!
Te corals need to receive the same amount of water motion from the same pumps and positions..

If you do the PAR readings, Lux readings and Spectrum readings, great! Dana will help and he will be very excited!!

But the recommendation from the manufacturer of the LEDs for the same 20K spectrum should be the way to go. They are the best people to talk to. Call them... The halide has no problem with that. It's supposed to be already at it's best. Just get the best reflector and the right ballast for the best efficiency!!

The coral frags should be from the same mother colony, healed from cutting, placed on plugs at least 1 month under the same type of light, side by side, so they heal and grow in equal form, size and color first. Then they can be slowly adapted to the new lights for the experiment.

This is really great!
I hope this thread will have lots of LED and MH people tagging along together for the results...
Grandis.
 

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