Rally for New Arrival?

[Empress]

@Humblefish

I have a McCosker's Flasher Wrasse coming in on Friday from BlueZoo. I plan to let him settle in for a couple of days and get him eating. Then I'll do a fresh water dip to rule out flukes. I have yet to see any flukes on any fish that I've bought from BZ, so let's say the wrasse doesn't show any flukes. So I won't need to use Prazi.

Then I will perform TTM to eradicate ich (whether the fish has it or not). Here's my question: Do I need to use Rally at any point during this quarantine process? The TTM will be carried out in those ugly 5 gallon Home Depot buckets and it's impossible to see if the fish has ich or not.

After the TTM he will go in a 10 gallon for 2 weeks observation.

Thanks,

Empress

 

[melypr1985]

If it were me, I'd do the rally dip before he goes into QT. I'd also go ahead and do the prazi. Just because no flukes show up in the FW dip, that doesn't mean there aren't any eggs waiting to hatch on him. Just my opinion.

 

[Humblefish]

If it were me, I'd do the rally dip before he goes into QT. I'd also go ahead and do the prazi. Just because no flukes show up in the FW dip, that doesn't mean there aren't any eggs waiting to hatch on him. Just my opinion.

+1 One of the nice things about TTM is you can treat with a specific medication for a limited duration, so long as you time it just right before the next transfer is scheduled to occur. For example, you can dose Prazipro 24 hrs beforehand or acriflavine/Rally 90 mins beforehand. Saves you the trouble of setting up a bucket & everything to perform a bath.

 

[Empress]

So you're saying to do a Rally before going into the Observation tank? I can do that.

And do Prazi anyway during transfers 2 &4? If I did that I wouldn't bother doing the fwd (why stress him out more than I have to).

Live and learn. Thanks!

 

[Empress]

I have one last question since I know timing is really important during TTTM. Do I put the wrasse in the 10g clear observation tank (from the ugly bucket) on Day 13 or Day 15?

• Day 1 - Fish is placed in initial QT.
• Day 4 - Prazi - Roughly 72 hours later transfer the fish to new tank. The time of day you do the transfer is unimportant, but never exceed 72 hours from the last transfer.
• Day 7 - Repeat.
• Day 10 - Prazi - Repeat.
• Day 13 - Repeat and Rally 90 minutes before observation tank (fish should now be ich free).

 

[Humblefish]

Do I put the wrasse in the 10g clear observation tank (from the ugly bucket) on Day 13 or Day 15?

Day 13

 

[aykwm]

If you want you can replace ruby reef with paraguard, it helps with ammonia burns, injuries, etc that fish can face during shipping, also seachem claims its antiparasitic/bacterial/viral... one of the active ingredients is malachite green

 

[Empress]

If you want you can replace ruby reef with paraguard, it helps with ammonia burns, injuries, etc that fish can face during shipping, also seachem claims its antiparasitic/bacterial/viral... one of the active ingredients is malachite green

I do have both Rally and Paraguard even though I haven't used the Paraguard yet for anything. I'm going to use the Rally since the bottle is already open. The Paraguard is my backup plan. [emoji6]

 

[Humblefish]

I would love to experiment with Paraguard in the future, to find out exactly what it does and does not accomplish.

I understand the benefits of malachite green, but what are "aldehydes and fish protective polymers" exactly? Meaning, what is the benefit of using Paraguard over straight malachite green.

 

[Empress]

MG might be harsher to the fish...might cause cancer or liver failure or cause the fish to die prematurely? I haven't tried the Paraguard yet but if I use it I'll let you know how it turns out.

I do have 2 black mollies still... wonder if I could experiment with them and the Paraguard. Not sure if that would work.

 

[Humblefish]

MG might be harsher to the fish...might cause cancer or liver failure or cause the fish to die prematurely? I haven't tried the Paraguard yet but if I use it I'll let you know how it turns out.

I do have 2 black mollies still... wonder if I could experiment with them and the Paraguard. Not sure if that would work.

A LFS I know uses Paraguard as a preventative bath on all new fish before they go into his retail system. He loves the stuff, and to be honest I never see diseases on any of his fish. However, he also doses Herbtana & Artemiss on a daily basis so you have to factor that in as well. But I know people who have had ich, velvet, brook outbreaks just days/weeks after buying new fish from him, once removed from that herbal concoction.

What I think he's done is figured out a great way to suppress symptoms of disease while the fish are in his care. It also helps that the store moves fish out pretty quickly.

 

[Empress]

And what he's doing isn't right either. Not for the fish or his customers. If he was an honest businessman he would explain his processes before he sold a fish to a potential customer.

 

[aykwm]

I would love to experiment with Paraguard in the future, to find out exactly what it does and does not accomplish.

I understand the benefits of malachite green, but what are "aldehydes and fish protective polymers" exactly? Meaning, what is the benefit of using Paraguard over straight malachite green.

I use it as a source of malachite green because its hard to find here. I also would like to know more about the ingredients they use to make it perform what it claims. I did notice a lot of improvement in fish during quarantine when I started using it. Also since I used it I had never had an outbreak of disease or infection in quarantine, fingers crossed. (of course this does not mean it does cure it, I still perform the full quarantine procedure), but I noticed that it does work but how good is the main question, also fish seem less stressed, especially that I perform TTM. For harshness I dont think an hour or two bath will effect it that much, also I believe its diluted down in paraguard but im not sure.

 

[aykwm]

And what he's doing isn't right either. Not for the fish or his customers. If he was an honest businessman he would explain his processes before he sold a fish to a potential customer.

Most LFS do this, whether herbal remedies or sub-therapeautical copper or other methods. Maybe its not the owner fault, but the staff. Few days ago I went to one of LFS around, I saw that one of his system has a velvet outbreak and there was a beautiful white cheek lying on its side and breathing heavily, I was sure that within hours it will be gone. I informed the staff over there about it and they told me its just sleeping, *insert facepalm here*, I explained to them its velvet and they should treat it immediately by FW dip and then copper. They told me fish already is treated with copper for 30 days in holding in their warehouse (this is one of the lies you hear) and also they run cupramine and uv (im not sure about copper in tank, probably true but they dont check the levels so in most cases below levels which only hides symptoms, also for uv guess what, it does not exist, I had a peak at the sump, its typical: socks, skimmer, and some ceramic media) of course you know what will happen if you mix copper with uv RIP FISH. I told him to do at least FW dip it will help it, but he though im an idiot as he told me these are salt water fish, I just couldn't handle how ignorant he is and just left. I wanted to save the fish, but it was too overpriced, also too deep into velvet that I doubt it will make it home.

Sorry for the long post, but yeah most staff at store are instructed to dose copper and prazi, as these usually cure the deadly range of parasites and they dont know the correct procedure, so they are doing more harm than good. Also, some use other remedies that they think it works but doesnt. You dont want a sick tank showing as customers wouldn't buy it, so if symptoms disappear thats good enough. Also some people are just greedy (after all its human nature) and they want to reduce their losses that way.

Whenever I visit a new fish store I always ask as many questions as possible about their quarantine, medication they run, how long has the fish been in the tank, etc.. and I try to see a proof for that. Currently I only have 1 trusted LFS i deal with, although I know that the staff take shortcuts on the quarantine process as its lost revenue, thats why its always recommended to quarantine. No fish store will do it better than you.

I think I went out of topic, apologies and best of luck with the new fish, keep us updated.

 

[Humblefish]

And what he's doing isn't right either. Not for the fish or his customers. If he was an honest businessman he would explain his processes before he sold a fish to a potential customer.

To be fair, he doesn't purport to sell disease-free fish and he is open & honest about his techniques (but you gotta ask nicely ). And he will sell you bottles of Herbtana & Artemiss if you tell him your fish have "ick"; which I guess you then have to use Herbtana & Artemiss for the rest of your life.

 

[Humblefish]

No fish store will do it better than you.

^^ Agree. Most LFS are setup to move fish in & out as quickly as possible. The longer they hold on to the fish, the greater chance it will die at the shop. If it dies in the care of a hobbyist, that's called a repeat customer.

Even LFS who attempt QT quite frankly don't do it right. Subtherapeutic medication levels, thinking copper is a cure-all, not understanding the concepts of cross contamination & aerosol transmission, using unscientific methods, the list goes on & on. The art of QT is a very precise one. It is very unforgiving and there is little to no margin for error.

And even if you manage to crank out a healthy, disease-free fish; will most people really pay extra for such? I know they say they will, but at the end of the day price is king, right?