Random Newbie Questions #2

Seawitch · Nov 4, 2018

Thank you for being so warm and friendly here. Here's my next set of random questions.

One of the things that I find so difficult with planning for SW is that everything is so dependent on everything else. For example, I don't want to have to buy equipment twice. I don't want to spend $0.05 until I know that what I choose is right for what I want to keep. I don't want to buy lights, for example, and then find that my lights aren't strong enough for LPS, and the tank is too deep.

So, let's assume a 90G for a DT (48X18X24). Let's assume 50G for sump, and 30G for an upstream refugium. I'm thinking glass for the 90, and acrylic for the other 2.

#1 Stocking.
The things that really interest me are as follows:
Cardinalfish--not sure yet which ones, maybe Pajamas because I've read they're more peaceful than Banggai. Or maybe others.
Far in the future, a mandarin or a pair of mandarins. (Yes, I'm aware of the difficulties.)
A tridacna clam or several. (worried about pyramidellid snails)
An anemone.

Are there any other small schooling fish that could live here too?

Can these things all live together in a 90G? I'm worried about the anemone splitting and making more anemones and taking over the tank.

What else can I grow on the rock aside from some or all of the list here? Can I have zoas? SPS? I don't really care about LPS.

#2 What happens if I'm making tons of pods in the refugium, and there's nothing to eat them for a year?

#3 Do some or most from my list require the same flow rate in the DT?

#4 For those that drill into live rock to make caves or holes for zip ties, should I assume you're drilling it out of the water? You're not drilling under water, right? (sorry if that's a stupid question.) I don't want to kill my live rock because it was out of water too long.

Thank you for any and all replies.

Oscaror · Nov 4, 2018

Seawitch said:
Thank you for being so warm and friendly here. Here's my next set of random questions.

One of the things that I find so difficult with planning for SW is that everything is so dependent on everything else. For example, I don't want to have to buy equipment twice. I don't want to spend $0.05 until I know that what I choose is right for what I want to keep. I don't want to buy lights, for example, and then find that my lights aren't strong enough for LPS, and the tank is too deep.

So, let's assume a 90G for a DT (48X18X24). Let's assume 50G for sump, and 30G for an upstream refugium. I'm thinking glass for the 90, and acrylic for the other 2.

#1 Stocking.
The things that really interest me are as follows:
Cardinalfish--not sure yet which ones, maybe Pajamas because I've read they're more peaceful than Banggai. Or maybe others.
Far in the future, a mandarin or a pair of mandarins. (Yes, I'm aware of the difficulties.)
A tridacna clam or several. (worried about pyramidellid snails)
An anemone.

Are there any other small schooling fish that could live here too?

Can these things all live together in a 90G? I'm worried about the anemone splitting and making more anemones and taking over the tank.

What else can I grow on the rock aside from some or all of the list here? Can I have zoas? SPS? I don't really care about LPS.

#2 What happens if I'm making tons of pods in the refugium, and there's nothing to eat them for a year?

#3 Do some or most from my list require the same flow rate in the DT?

#4 For those that drill into live rock to make caves or holes for zip ties, should I assume you're drilling it out of the water? You're not drilling under water, right? (sorry if that's a stupid question.) I don't want to kill my live rock because it was out of water too long.

Thank you for any and all replies.

#1 Pretty much any tank can have zoas. SPS don't do well with anemones (no corals really do but SPS are usually a bit harder to move out of the way after they've become part of the rockwork). A lot of people do keep them together but I personally wouldn't do it just because of the anemone movement risks. Nem probably won't take over your tank but if it splits it still will indeed take valuable real estate. Mandarins are fine. Pajamas are fine but like banggais don't keep more than just a mated pair. Also are you sure you don't care about LPS? They're pretty cool

#2 Are you saying if there's nothing to eat the pods? Shouldn't really be a big issue, I'd assume they just do whatever any species does without predators which is explode in population.

#3 SPS like high but indirect flow, zoas mostly like flow low enough so the water isnt shooting over them but not so low that they collect detritus. It's okay though no tank will have uniform flow, there will be higher flow areas and lower flow areas and you can fill them with their respective corals.

#4 No you don't drill in the water. Your live rock won't die from being out of the water for a few minutes or even a few hours. As long as it's still wet it'll be fine. It can go a day or two even but obviously don't push it (but you're just drilling so I assume you won't have to worry about that).

andrewkw · Nov 4, 2018

#1 Pajamas are more peaceful than Banggai but Banggai's alone or in pairs are peaceful - if you try more then 2 or 2 of the same sex they usually end up killing each other. I would still consider 1 a beginner fish though. It can be hard to tell male and female apart but it is possible.
Other small fish - there really aren't any schooling marine fish some will shoal. you can try chromis but usually they end up picking off the weakest one and this just continues until you are left with one but sometimes they get along. Lyretail anthias or another easy to keep anthais is a possibility - they typically require a bit more feeding as far as times per day but usually if you are feeding a nutritious food 1-2x per day is fine once they are established.

As far as the anemone it depends what kind you get. Bubble Tip? this is usually the beginner anemone both because of appearance and ease, it is the most likely to move around though. You probably have to worry about keeping them alive before you worry about them taking over your tank. Despite the fact they do split and wander they are relatively easy to remove if you get to this point and will always hold some trade or cash value.

#2 they continue on. Populations of microfauna are self regulating in that they will only reach a level that is sustainable either from food that naturally occurs or that you are adding. You don't have to worry about an explosion. Even if you do see a ton of pods once you start adding predators or feeding less the numbers will go down. I would guess 95% of people are more likely to worry about not enough vs too little.

#3 A clam and an anemone will probably require different flow but it depends on the type of anemone. In a 90 gallon tank placement should be relatively simple to find the proper spots for them. While there are some fish that require high flow they aren't likely to be fish you are adding to a 90 gallon so any level should be comfortable for fish you would add.

#4 drill OUT of the tank for safety of you and the tank. Do you have live rock or dead rock you cured and made live? Either way it can be out of the water for some time. If it's out of the water long term ie many hours you may experience die off but you're not going to wipe it out unless you fall asleep making your aquascape and forget about it the next day. You can spray it with saltwater or put wet paper towels / newspaper over it if you are working a long time on a particular piece. If you are doing different structures it's best to remove the pieces you are working on then get more. Of course you can always spread out everything on a table then put some paper towels over them as well. Given that you are working with a 90 gallon tank I don't think it will take you long enough to kill off much of the rock. Make sure you have the right drill bits and other supplies you need such as zip ties, acrylic rods, epoxy and glue ect.

Hope this helps.

Oscaror · Nov 4, 2018

andrewkw said:
#1 Pajamas are more peaceful than Banggai but Banggai's alone or in pairs are peaceful - if you try more then 2 or 2 of the same sex they usually end up killing each other. I would still consider 1 a beginner fish though. It can be hard to tell male and female apart but it is possible.
Other small fish - there really aren't any schooling marine fish some will shoal. you can try chromis but usually they end up picking off the weakest one and this just continues until you are left with one but sometimes they get along. Lyretail anthias or another easy to keep anthais is a possibility - they typically require a bit more feeding as far as times per day but usually if you are feeding a nutritious food 1-2x per day is fine once they are established.

As far as the anemone it depends what kind you get. Bubble Tip? this is usually the beginner anemone both because of appearance and ease, it is the most likely to move around though. You probably have to worry about keeping them alive before you worry about them taking over your tank. Despite the fact they do split and wander they are relatively easy to remove if you get to this point and will always hold some trade or cash value.

#2 they continue on. Populations of microfauna are self regulating in that they will only reach a level that is sustainable either from food that naturally occurs or that you are adding. You don't have to worry about an explosion. Even if you do see a ton of pods once you start adding predators or feeding less the numbers will go down. I would guess 95% of people are more likely to worry about not enough vs too little.

#3 A clam and an anemone will probably require different flow but it depends on the type of anemone. In a 90 gallon tank placement should be relatively simple to find the proper spots for them. While there are some fish that require high flow they aren't likely to be fish you are adding to a 90 gallon so any level should be comfortable for fish you would add.

#4 drill OUT of the tank for safety of you and the tank. Do you have live rock or dead rock you cured and made live? Either way it can be out of the water for some time. If it's out of the water long term ie many hours you may experience die off but you're not going to wipe it out unless you fall asleep making your aquascape and forget about it the next day. You can spray it with saltwater or put wet paper towels / newspaper over it if you are working a long time on a particular piece. If you are doing different structures it's best to remove the pieces you are working on then get more. Of course you can always spread out everything on a table then put some paper towels over them as well. Given that you are working with a 90 gallon tank I don't think it will take you long enough to kill off much of the rock. Make sure you have the right drill bits and other supplies you need such as zip ties, acrylic rods, epoxy and glue ect.

Hope this helps.

Yes I forgot to mention and I agree that no fish will truly school in aquariums.

Ron Reefman · Nov 5, 2018

Are there any other small schooling fish that could live here too?
There really aren't any good schooling fish that do well in an aquarium. Some chromis do, but then they tend to beat up on the weakest one in the school until the school becomes just a couple!

Can these things all live together in a 90G? I'm worried about the anemone splitting and making more anemones and taking over the tank.
It depends on the anemone. And you really will have a hard time if you can't deal with the birth of new critters in your tank. I had 5 Rock Flower anemones, now I have about 25 because 2 of them decided to spawn. Just deal with it. You can always sell the extras.

What else can I grow on the rock aside from some or all of the list here? Can I have zoas? SPS? I don't really care about LPS.
Yes you can have zoas and sps. My 40g cube is 80% zoas (which is what I really want because I love the colors they fluoresce in the blue evening light) and 20%sps and lps because I had them in my previous tanks (a 120g that was 90% sps). Zoas and sps are kind of at opposite ends of the light and flow spectrum, but there is no good reason they can't co-exist.

#2 What happens if I'm making tons of pods in the refugium, and there's nothing to eat them for a year?
They grow old after a long and happy life and then die. Lots of things will be willing to eat your pods. And growing them to excess isn't easy.

#3 Do some or most from my list require the same flow rate in the DT?
Unless you go for a specialist tank, like all sps acros, or all zoas, flow isn't a huge issue. And even in your tank, you won't have even flow everywhere, no matter how hard you try. The same goes for light. The higher in the water the more light (Up on the taller rocks) and the further away from the center of the light source, there will be less light (along the ends of the tank or in the shadows or rocks or other corals).

#4 For those that drill into live rock to make caves or holes for zip ties, should I assume you're drilling it out of the water? You're not drilling under water, right? (sorry if that's a stupid question.) I don't want to kill my live rock because it was out of water too long.
Live rock can be out of the water for a long time (an hour or more) once they are completely saturated. I drill lots of holes in my rocks so frag plugs will fit in snugly and stay in place. The zoas or encrusting sps will grow over the plug and onto the rocks and you won't even know they are there in 6 to 12 months.