Randy FW chemistry

[TherealplexiG]

This question is outta box, no one in FW forums or the top notch breeders could answer it...
It's about discus fish. FW discus keepers say that these fish require x amount of water changes to thrive and list them in hard to keep list.
When i questioned them about water chemistry. That what changes in water chemistry that requires water changes. And many of them who had been keeping discus since many decades were clueless, majority of them told, it can't be done without water changes. To them water changes are something like crazy massive changes several time throughout the day or at least thrice a week nearly more than 90% of WC.
Few pointer were build up of Nitrates, and their consideration was they feed often several times a day and can't keep with nitrates. To us if we take a plunge to a challenge if only considering nitrates it's doable. But i guess there is something more than that. I wanna put some research on it though!
Other than that it was TDS build up, and couple of them told it was excessive hormones released in the water column which stunned the growth. I doubt the last one.
I'm really keen if you know something in this regards as what actually happens or changes in water chemistry so that discus's growth stuns or they get deformed.
There is this one guy from fw community who has challenged me into a competition, where he will be doing water changes for several month and i have to go without it. He is a breeder since 15 years in to discus and has won 18 bets against sw guys. This is question of integrity of sw community.
Please suggest..

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I don't know much about discuss except that my parents kept them when I was a kid in the 60's. lol

As to water changes, they will be exporting organics of all types, and some could be an issue I suppose and not all will bind to GAC.

Like a reef tank, there may also be accumulation of metals from foods that could be an issue.

I also do not know how sensitive they are to the concentrations of higher concentration elements, such as potassium, etc.

So there are lots of possibilities involved, and I'm not sure what you should most think about.

 

[TherealplexiG]

Thanks for your answer randy, that explains alot...

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

You're welcome.

Good luck!

 

[beaslbob]

pssst: setup a planted refugium and don't do any water changes.

 

[TherealplexiG]

pssst: setup a planted refugium and don't do any water changes

This is what i was thinking....
Sump with the following
prefilters 300 um to 200 um to 100 um then to the following.
MarinePure blocks- 12 units
ATS
Freshwater refug kinda thing with Epipremnum aureum.
GAC reactor
UV
Any other thing that might work in FW?

 

[beaslbob]

This is what i was thinking....
Sump with the following
prefilters 300 um to 200 um to 100 um then to the following.
MarinePure blocks- 12 units
ATS
Freshwater refug kinda thing with Epipremnum aureum.
GAC reactor
UV
Any other thing that might work in FW?

my FW experience is called the "beaslbob build" on line. From a forum that later banned me.

In that I use a planted tank with 1" peat moss, 1" play sand and 1" pro choice select (a red clay used in baseball infields) substrate.

My experience is the peat moss prevents the buildups of tds (gh/kh) for up to and beyond 2 years.

The "beaslbob build" also uses no mechanical filters/circulation, no water changes, straight untreated tap water top offs. Of course it is a heavily planted system also.

My guess is that a planted refugium (even just an in tank partition) would be fine for discus. Just use a mix of fast growing and slower growing plants to keep the system stabilized and in balance. No need for all the super duper filters, reactors and so on.

Still that's just me and my .02

 

[becks]

My dad recently closed down his 6 x2 x2 fw tank that had about 6 discus I think, he hardly ever done water changes and all his fish thrived...his tank was running around 10 years. I can't remember the filtration he had but he had two huge eheim canister filters that he just use to clean out every now and then

 

[TherealplexiG]

My dad recently closed down his 6 x2 x2 fw tank that had about 6 discus I think, he hardly ever done water changes and all his fish thrived...his tank was running around 10 years. I can't remember the filtration he had but he had two huge eheim canister filters that he just use to clean out every now and then

Sorry i might have missed to put in a little here.
Thriving and optimal growth are two different things..
Grown discus face seldom problems with less water changes.
Eheim canisters are mechanical filter primarily, it sure does nitrification as well. But in terms of denitrification i'm not too sure..
Raising juvis is all together a different ball game in a specific time frame.
The competition would be raising juvis or fries to a specific period of time, one with water changes and one (That's me) without water changes, comparing the results for a win.
You knw m sayin?



@beaslbob
Thanks for chiming in.
How does kH & gH affect to neons as you mentioned on the other forum?
Does it affect the same to discus?

 

[beaslbob]

Sorry i might have missed to put in a little here.
Thriving and optimal growth are two different things..
Grown discus face seldom problems with less water changes.
Eheim canisters are mechanical filter primarily, it sure does nitrification as well. But in terms of denitrification i'm not too sure..
Raising juvis is all together a different ball game in a specific time frame.
The competition would be raising juvis or fries to a specific period of time, one with water changes and one (That's me) without water changes, comparing the results for a win.
You knw m sayin?



@beaslbob
Thanks for chiming in.
How does kH & gH affect to neons as you mentioned on the other forum?
Does it affect the same to discus?

Neons with no peat moss and therefore rising kh and gh did not live much beyond a few months. and some even didn't make it a few weeks. But with the peat moss and kh of 4 degrees and gh of 9 degrees they lived for over two years.
I have a feeling that was really key to all those fish requiring soft (low ph) water. It would seem the low kh and gh was the determining factor.
Gut feel is discus might react in the same way.
But then I have no experience with discus.

my .02