Randy Holmes DIY 2 Part question

[becks]

Hi,

I'm just about to order the ingredients to make up my solutions but have two questions regarding the recipe;

1) For Magnesium in Recipe 2 it stats "Dissolve Epsom salts (3 cups) and magnesium chloride hexahydrate (5 cups) in enough purified freshwater to make 1 gallon total volume"

Cup measurements is mainly used in America, would the metric equivalent be the following:

450 grams of Epsom Salts
750 grams of Magnesium Chloride Hexahydrate

2) I plan on infrequent water changes and using ICP to check my levels but I've lost the post now where I think you were saying that the DIY 2 part also contains the trace elements?

I was doing some theoretical dosage calculations and some of the dosing packages that also use ICP (not triton, I was looking at something else) it seems to use your recipe one formula, as the dosages are the same to raise dkh by 1.5, but also claiming it adds trace elements. So if the DIY recipe already contains trace elements and any trace elements that are being consumed faster or lacking will be highlighted within the ICP results, then are dose individually to bring them up to the desired level and checked on the next ICP test, or with a test kit if available. If this is the case it seems to me that this product is basically a liquid form of your two part recipe with ICP monitoring.

 

[Ponraj A]

Hi, Please refer the attached only for the weight in grams convertion with the "cup"
I hope it helps.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

The metric equivalent of a cup is 237mL.

If you have a scale, then you can go by mass if you want.

There are various versions around depending on what you want to use.

For Epsom salts only, use 64 ounces in 1 US gallon (2260 grams in 3.9 L total volume after the solid is added and dissolved.

If you use magnesium chloride hexahydrate as well as Epsom salt, use about 1360 g of the chloride and 900 g of the Epsom salt.

 

[becks]

There's no other text there randy other than the quote

 

[jenreefer]

There's no other text there randy other than the quote

it links to a paper for me. when I clicked it downloaded the paper to my computer.

 

[becks]

thanks,

does the recipe contain trace elements aswel?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

There's no other text there randy other than the quote

I edited it it.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

thanks,

does the recipe contain trace elements aswel?

The recipe contains trace elements (such as iron, copper, molybdenum, etc.) only as impurities in the primary ingredients.

Trace elements in commercial two part additives are not typically designed to maintain trace elements. They are designed to ensure that the method itself is not lowering them when the salinity rises and is then reduced back to normal.

So if you need specific trace elements, you will likely have to add them independently.

 

[jenreefer]

thanks,

does the recipe contain trace elements aswel?

Not that I am aware of. I dose trace separately.

 

[wcharon]

Hi Randy.... I live in PR and the shipping price to get things to us is more expensive than the product.

I am using your 2 part for ALK (Baking Soda) and Calcium (Mrs. Wages) with success. It is easy to get the Epson Salt but is there a homemade ingredient to substitute the Magnesium Chloride Hexahydrate?

Thanks in advance...

 

[becks]

Is there any downside to using Sodium carbonate with recipe 2? From the looks the off things, the difference between recipe 1 and 2 is that recipe 1 just more concentrated. If so would I mix the same amount, so 297 grams of sodium carbonate instead of baking soda?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Hi Randy.... I live in PR and the shipping price to get things to us is more expensive than the product.

I am using your 2 part for ALK (Baking Soda) and Calcium (Mrs. Wages) with success. It is easy to get the Epson Salt but is there a homemade ingredient to substitute the Magnesium Chloride Hexahydrate?

Thanks in advance...

Not really. That's why the original recipe didn't use it. It is mostly use as ice melter in the US, which isn't likely in your area. lol

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Is there any downside to using Sodium carbonate with recipe 2? From the looks the off things, the difference between recipe 1 and 2 is that recipe 1 just more concentrated. If so would I mix the same amount, so 297 grams of sodium carbonate instead of baking soda?

Baking soda is cheap and is food grade. If you can get a high quality grace of sodium carbonate, that's fine too. Washing soda may be OK, but doesn't carry a good grade assurance, typically. You substantially use less when using sodium carbonate.

 

[marke]

The recipe contains trace elements (such as iron, copper, molybdenum, etc.) only as impurities in the primary ingredients.

Trace elements in commercial two part additives are not typically designed to maintain trace elements. They are designed to ensure that the method itself is not lowering them when the salinity rises and is then reduced back to normal.

So if you need specific trace elements, you will likely have to add them independently.

Randy can you clarify your thoughts about the addition of trace metals. I feel too many people think they need to buy a bottle of trace supplement and go blind squirting. This gives them that missing ingredient that must be missing in 2 part or salt mixes? You mentioned specific trace elements above. Which ones? Can we test for them? Mag, Iodine, Potassium, Strontium are ok to test and add if depleted; however adding more copper or zinc or other heavy metals may not be a good idea. Research has show that salt mixes come in high in heavy metals and trace as impurities. Same thing for industrial grade 2 parts they have significantly more trace or toxic metal than we want. The goal based on an article Randy wrote is to reduce the input and maximize the output of heavy metals. Adding or dosing a store bought all purpose trace product is nothing more than toxic trace metals. Read the label!!! So before you go blind squirting trace everyday, spend your money on a triton test and see if your depleted in a trace. Odds are you will be heavy in toxic metals or trace.

 

[becks]

Baking soda is cheap and is food grade. If you can get a high quality grace of sodium carbonate, that's fine too. Washing soda may be OK, but doesn't carry a good grade assurance, typically. You substantially use less when using sodium carbonate.

This is what I can get,

• Sodium Carbonate Anhydrous
• Molecular Formula: 99.7 % Na2CO3
• CAS Number: 497-19-8
• Manufacturer: TATA Chemicals Europe
• Grade: Standard Grade
• Appearance: Granular

Key Properties

• It has a chemical structure of Na2CO3 and a molecular formula of CNa2O3.
• The compound will melt at 851 degrees Celsius or 1564 degrees Fahrenheit.
• Sodium carbonate is noncombustible and will decompose in effervescent acids.
• Sodium carbonate takes the form of a white crystalline powder, soluble in water at 45.5g/100 mL.
• The compound remains stable under ordinary conditions and does not pose a threat of fire.
• Sodium carbonate poses no hazards in transportation and has a bulk density of 400 to 700 kg/mg3.
• Its pH measures 11.6 and it has no distinguishable odor.
• Sodium carbonate has high alkaline properties.

Specification:

• Total Alkali (Na2CO3): 99.7 %
• Total Alkali (Na2O): 58.3 %
• Moisture (loss on heating ): 0.11 %
• Insolubles in water at 20°c: 100 mg/kg
• Chloride (NaCl): 0.11 %
• Sulphate (Na2SO4): 100 mg/kg
• Iron (Fe2O3): 9 mg/kg
• Fluoride (F): < 5* mg/kg
• Arsenic (As): < 0.1* mg/kg
• Cadmium (Cd): < 0.5* mg/kg
• Chromium (Cr): < 0.1* mg/kg
• Cobalt (Co): < 0.1* mg/kg
• Copper (Cu): < 0.1* mg/kg
• Lead (Pb): < 0.5* mg/kg
• Manganese (Mn): < 0.1* mg/kg
• Mercury (Hg): < 0.1* mg/kg
• Nickel (Ni): < 0.1* mg/kg
• Titanium (Ti): < 0.2* mg/kg
• Vanadium (V): < 0.1* mg/kg

( * = Actual level is below the limit of detection )


Particle Size:

• Sieve Fraction (microns) > 2800: Nil %
• Sieve Fraction (microns) 1000 - 2800: 1.9 %
• Sieve Fraction (microns) 425 - 1000: 29.6 %
• Sieve Fraction (microns) 250 - 425: 39.8 %
• Sieve Fraction (microns) 125 – 250: 25.8 %
• Sieve Fraction (microns) 63 - 125: 1.9 %
• Sieve Fraction (microns) < 63: 1.0 %

How much should I mix to a US gallon?

 

[wcharon]

Not really. That's why the original recipe didn't use it. It is mostly use as ice melter in the US, which isn't likely in your area. lol

Thanks Randy... Seems that I will have to keep on with BRS for the Magnesium Chloride Hexahydrate. But at least I will avoid I shipping price with the Epson.

Great as always Buddy...

 

[becks]

This is what I can get,

• Sodium Carbonate Anhydrous
• Molecular Formula: 99.7 % Na2CO3
• CAS Number: 497-19-8
• Manufacturer: TATA Chemicals Europe
• Grade: Standard Grade
• Appearance: Granular

Key Properties

• It has a chemical structure of Na2CO3 and a molecular formula of CNa2O3.
• The compound will melt at 851 degrees Celsius or 1564 degrees Fahrenheit.
• Sodium carbonate is noncombustible and will decompose in effervescent acids.
• Sodium carbonate takes the form of a white crystalline powder, soluble in water at 45.5g/100 mL.
• The compound remains stable under ordinary conditions and does not pose a threat of fire.
• Sodium carbonate poses no hazards in transportation and has a bulk density of 400 to 700 kg/mg3.
• Its pH measures 11.6 and it has no distinguishable odor.
• Sodium carbonate has high alkaline properties.

Specification:

• Total Alkali (Na2CO3): 99.7 %
• Total Alkali (Na2O): 58.3 %
• Moisture (loss on heating ): 0.11 %
• Insolubles in water at 20°c: 100 mg/kg
• Chloride (NaCl): 0.11 %
• Sulphate (Na2SO4): 100 mg/kg
• Iron (Fe2O3): 9 mg/kg
• Fluoride (F): < 5* mg/kg
• Arsenic (As): < 0.1* mg/kg
• Cadmium (Cd): < 0.5* mg/kg
• Chromium (Cr): < 0.1* mg/kg
• Cobalt (Co): < 0.1* mg/kg
• Copper (Cu): < 0.1* mg/kg
• Lead (Pb): < 0.5* mg/kg
• Manganese (Mn): < 0.1* mg/kg
• Mercury (Hg): < 0.1* mg/kg
• Nickel (Ni): < 0.1* mg/kg
• Titanium (Ti): < 0.2* mg/kg
• Vanadium (V): < 0.1* mg/kg

( * = Actual level is below the limit of detection )


Particle Size:

• Sieve Fraction (microns) > 2800: Nil %
• Sieve Fraction (microns) 1000 - 2800: 1.9 %
• Sieve Fraction (microns) 425 - 1000: 29.6 %
• Sieve Fraction (microns) 250 - 425: 39.8 %
• Sieve Fraction (microns) 125 – 250: 25.8 %
• Sieve Fraction (microns) 63 - 125: 1.9 %
• Sieve Fraction (microns) < 63: 1.0 %

How much should I mix to a US gallon?

I can't edit this now, just to clarify how much should I mix the sodium carbonate and Epsom salts in the RO water to keep it balanced with recipe 1 and recipe 2, so it's easier to dose at the same ratio as the instructions state.

Thanks again for help

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

This is what I can get...

How much should I mix to a US gallon?

That material looks adequately pure.

Do you have a scale?

 

[becks]

Scale? As in for measuring weights, then I do. Or size? its granular, but I can get powdered form. I question it because your calculators to raise dkh it's giving different amounts for sodium carbonate and baked baking soda.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Randy can you clarify your thoughts about the addition of trace metals. I feel too many people think they need to buy a bottle of trace supplement and go blind squirting. This gives them that missing ingredient that must be missing in 2 part or salt mixes? You mentioned specific trace elements above. Which ones? Can we test for them? Mag, Iodine, Potassium, Strontium are ok to test and add if depleted; however adding more copper or zinc or other heavy metals may not be a good idea. Research has show that salt mixes come in high in heavy metals and trace as impurities. Same thing for industrial grade 2 parts they have significantly more trace or toxic metal than we want. The goal based on an article Randy wrote is to reduce the input and maximize the output of heavy metals. Adding or dosing a store bought all purpose trace product is nothing more than toxic trace metals. Read the label!!! So before you go blind squirting trace everyday, spend your money on a triton test and see if your depleted in a trace. Odds are you will be heavy in toxic metals or trace.

With respect to trace elements, I dosed iron regularly, and found, but did not dose,t he following when testing for trace elements:

http://www.reefedition.com/my-triton-testing-results-by-randy-holmes-farley/

Molybdenum (Mo). Molybdenum is low, and if that is true, it’s an interesting and potentially important result. I don’t typically add any trace elements. I may consider adding some molybdenum as it is biologically important.

Vanadium (V). Triton can just barely detect the natural level of vanadium (1.8 µg/L) since their LOD is 0.9 µg/L. Still, detecting none suggests it may be depleted, and is another possibility for dosing.

Zinc (Zn). The zinc is about spot on, so there’s not much to say about it.

Manganese (Mn). Triton can just barely detect the natural level of manganese (0.17 µg/L) since their LOD is 0.12 µg/L. Detecting none suggests it may be depleted, and is another possibility for dosing, but I have less confidence that this one is really seriously depleted since it is so close to the LOD. But Mn is biologically important and I will consider it.

Iron (Fe). The natural iron level varies a lot with depth, but surface seawater may have only 0.006 µg/L. The Triton LOD = 0.3 µg/L. I dose iron, and when I dose it I boost iron to roughly 1-2 µg/L, which would be detectable. This sample was taken more than a week after the last iron dosing, and none was detected as it gets depleted in the meanwhile. I’ve not yet seen a Triton test result for a real aquarium sample that had detectable iron, but that doesn’t mean these tanks are necessarily deficient. Iron is also a case where the form is critical, and ICP cannot distinguish form. Binding to organic matter, for example, can alter the bioavailability of iron.

Chromium (Cr). Chromium is present in natural seawater at roughly 0.3 µg/L. The Triton LOD = 0.9 µg/L), so having none detected may be fine. We cannot really tell much, unless there is a substantial excess.

Cobalt (Co). Cobalt is present in natural seawater at roughly 0.006 µg/L. The Triton LOD = 0.4 µg/L), so having none detected may be fine. We cannot really tell much, unless there is a substantial excess.

Other Heavy Metals
None of the other heavy metals were detected at levels to indicate a concern. A number of years ago, I measured higher levels of copper (Cu) in my aquarium (about 13 µg/L). The Triton test shows none, with an LOD of about 1.2 µg/L. My husbandry practices are a bit different now, including now using GFO (granular ferric oxide) phosphate binder, organic carbon dosing (vinegar) and feeding some different foods, so that might explain the copper change. The fact that it was determined by different people on different machines, however, may also play a role. When I tested it myself, I was barely able to detect it above the background noise.