Randy's 2 part questions

[LesPoissons]

hi there,
Im new-ish at this and Ive just recently started to get the alk/ca/mag in my tank balanced and started out with brs 2 part but now switching to making my own following Randy's recipe. According to my tests (hanna and saliftert for mag) for the brs solutions I need to add about 50ml of alk solution daily, 200ml of Ca, and 200ml of mag. (maintaining Alk at 10.5, Ca at 425, and Mag at 1350). This seems to not go in accordance with the instructions Im reading for Randy's where the same amount of alk and ca should be added and mag dosed much less frequently? Where am I going wrong here?
Thank you!

 

[LesPoissons]

Opps- another question I forgot- does it matter how thick the layer of baking soda is when you bake it?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

It would take weeks to determine the magnesium depletion rate. You cannot measure it day to day as it is much too small, and you also will not be able to detect the directed addition amount of it in less than a week.

How long did you track calcium to determine the amount needed?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Like a turkey, the bigger (thicker) it is, the longer it takes to come to full temp in the middle. There is no risk of heating too high or too long in a home over.

 

[LesPoissons]

I monitored for 10 days but daily tests show depletion as far as I can tell for the mag and if i add the 200 ml, the test adjust accordingly if I retest in a couple hours? Is the salifert just a garbage test kit? Maybe thats the issue? I just got an aquaforest kit so I will try that instead.

I baked for 90 min on 300 and when i mixed my solution I didnt get any heat in the reaction so Im assuming I didnt bake it long enough or it was too thick.

 

[redfishbluefish]

If you made the two cups per gallon mix of alk (2 1/4 cups sodium bicarbonate pre- baked), and it went into solution, you'll be fine. 2 cups of sodium bicarbonate will not all dissolve in a gallon of water, so it must have converted to sodium carbonate.

FYI, I do my baking at 350 to better guarantee the bicarb blows off that CO2 and converts to the carbonate.

 

[LesPoissons]

I did that recipe but bake about 9 cups (pre-bake) at a time for a 4gal mix for a 250g tank. I re doing the mix at 2 hrs at 450 instead since it’s about an inch deep in 2 pans.
Thanks for the help!

 

[dwest]

I did that recipe but bake about 9 cups (pre-bake) at a time for a 4gal mix for a 250g tank. I re doing the mix at 2 hrs at 450 instead since it’s about an inch deep in 2 pans.
Thanks for the help!

You can just buy sodium carbonate also. I get the big bucket.

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[epsteino]

Not sure about how to make bicarbonate. But your calcium and mag are way off as you suspect. I would not assume it is your test kit although it could be measuring incorrectly, if you do it the same way every time it should not show daily fluctuation. It just doesn’t get depleted that fast. Neither does calcium. How big is your tank? Where do you dose? What time frame do you dose? Could they be precipitating out?

 

[LesPoissons]

Sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) is made from ground minerals- its not something you would make easily. But its like 0.38 cents a pound here. BRS soda ash (baked baking soda) is like $2.57 per pound, plus shipping. I cant justify that kind of mark up so Ill just bake it myself.

My tank is 220g with a 55g sump so total water volume is an estimated 250g. Im confused. If I test today and don't dose anything, I will show a depreciation in ca, alk, and mag on my tests at this time tomorrow? Thats how i track the average depletion in the tank. (or testing every 2 or 3 days for 2 weeks) If i dose how i have been (basically dumping it in the sump?) the tank remains stable. I was dosing alk daily and ca and mag every 3 days but then i switched to brs products and everything seemed to get a lot more complicated and i feel like im using tons of product and incorrectly at that. I do add them in the same area of the sump, about an hour apart.

I just ordered a dosing pump bc Im getting really frustrated with hand dosing. Can they not be dosed on the same day or near the same time? Is that where Im going wrong?

 

[epsteino]

OK. so it sounds like you are waiting long enough in between dosing. In the sump is OK but should be in a high flow area. With BRS soda ash and CaCl (which is what I use), and if you mix it to their instructions, I have read that you should be dosing equal volumes daily. The magnesium is dosed in much smaller amounts and calculated based on how much of the 2 part you have already dosed. In my 120 gallon mixed reef, I dose 150 ml soda ash and 170 ml CaCl and 17 ml Magnesium a day. spread out in equal increments throughout the day. (I am going to change the alkalinity dose time to end of light cycle and beginning of dark because I'm having problems with pH swings). I keep my alk around 8.0 and Calcium around 430. Mag is 1420. Yes, I would expect a depletion of these elements daily and most notably in alkalinity because there is generally less of it available per volume of water. Calcium and Magnesium take longer to show depletion because test kits cannot measure such small increments and the accuracy for calcium say, is usually around +/- 15 or 20 ppm. Salifert claims +/- 15ppm.

Sorry but I do not know Randy's formula. Sounds like you have been stable with BRS dosing? You need 50ml soda ash daily? how often are you placing the 200 ml CaCl and 200 ml Mag?

 

[LesPoissons]

yes the exact numbers ive been doing for a week are 47ml soda ash per day, 200ml ca per day, and 233ml mag per day and according to the hanna kits for alk and ca, and the salifert for mag- everything is staying stable at those doses. But it just doesnt make sense.
So I think Im going to start from scratch, do a water change, get everything balanced and redo my 10 day tests and see what i get. Theres something not adding up right somewhere!
Thank you!!

 

[LesPoissons]

*a week meaning this last week of adjustments

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I monitored for 10 days but daily tests show depletion as far as I can tell for the mag and if i add the 200 ml, the test adjust accordingly if I retest in a couple hours? Is the salifert just a garbage test kit? Maybe thats the issue? I just got an aquaforest kit so I will try that instead.

I baked for 90 min on 300 and when i mixed my solution I didnt get any heat in the reaction so Im assuming I didnt bake it long enough or it was too thick.

IMO, magnesium should not be dosed in this method based on testing. It is not the only ingredient the method balances, and is not sensitive enough. After an extended period, if magnesium actually gets too low (say, below 1259-1300 ppm) it is fine to manually boost it, and if it gets too high (say 1400- 1450+) it is fine to back off or stop for a while.

 

[LesPoissons]

Yes but that’s what I’m saying. According to my tests my magnesium will go from 1350 to 1250 in three days. So I could dose more at a time to keep the level higher and stretch out the dosage but my confusion is why it seems to be using so much at all. If I do it every three days I need 700 ML‘s of mag just to get it back up to 1350. It’s like half a gallon a week- just seems excessive compared to the ca and alk depletion. So water change and balancing tank and new test kit for mag and I’ll see where I’m going wrong.

 

[redfishbluefish]

Something is not right. No way are you utilizing that much magnesium. I'd review the testing of Mag....maybe take a sample to your LFS to test or have a friend do the test. Note with Salifert, a common mistake is that you take the syringe reading and subtract from one. This is wrong. Take the actual syringe reading and look that up on the table provided.

Here is part of that table....again, it's the actual number off the syringe that you're looking up. So if the syringe says 0.10 (you used 0.9 of the solution), you have 1350 ppm.

 

[LesPoissons]

Thank you for the extra effort! Yes thats how I have been taking my readings. I had the pleasure of being a vet tech for a decade so carefully reading syringe volumes is fortunately in my wheelhouse. And I agree that either my test is off or the batch of mag I got is off or something- its not adding up correctly.