Randy's 2 part vs Aquaforest

[Xclusive Reef]

I am researching these 2 parts, vitamins, elements etc and just wanted to see if anyone knew the differences between Randy's DIY 2 part vs Aquaforest ? Are there certain elements that are in one vs the others?

 

[Martin Kuhn]

Randy's 2part is a very cost efficient calcium carbonate replacement

From Af you have several options from what you chose !
That's up to a complete system including Mg and all trace elements. And you can by pre mixed liquid stock solutions

 

[Xclusive Reef]

Randy's 2part is a very cost efficient calcium carbonate replacement

From Af you have several options from what you chose !
That's up to a complete system including Mg and all trace elements. And you can by pre mixed liquid stock solutions

so in a nutshell the AF adds trace elements that if you do Randy's you have to add those elements in correct?

 

[Martin Kuhn]

You even mustn't add trace elements. Lots of tanks run very good even without. Especially if you anyhow do waterchanges which do also the same
In case you like a super duper sps dominant tank you might do better with traces

Also, and as I already said. Consumption of Mg which takes place in some tanks, is also not considered in Randy's recipe afaik.

 

[CNDReef]

Randy's 2 part does have a third that's magnesium
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

FWIW, my 2/3 part is designed to be DIY/cost effective.

It is not, IMO, as good as a two part such as B-ionic which likely has a better balance of ions in it.

I do not know about Aquaforest in particular.

 

[Xclusive Reef]

FWIW, my 2/3 part is designed to be DIY/cost effective.

It is not, IMO, as good as a two part such as B-ionic which likely has a better balance of ions in it.

I do not know about Aquaforest in particular.

got it thank you Randy for responding back..

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

You're welcome.

Happy Reefing.

 

[Martin Kuhn]

FWIW, my 2/3 part is designed to be DIY/cost effective.
It is not, IMO, as good as a two part such as B-ionic which likely has a better balance of ions in it.
I do not know about Aquaforest in particular.

Randy, why do you think that your DIY recipe is not as good as B-ionic? And what exactly do you mean with "balance of ions in it"
From my understanding what we all do here is "cooking with water".
For our Ca consumption we dose CaCl2 (2xH2o or waterfree version)
For Alk we dose NaHCO3 or Na2CO3, or a mix of both.
No miracles in that.

Besides a possible dosing also of trace elements with one or both of those stock solutions or separately,
the only difference i see is the purity of cheap materials (eg like DIY) compared to higher purity of the material of other supliers. Sometimes evenwith a paper that guarantees you this.

but maybe i'm wrong ?

 

[Martin Kuhn]

Randy's 2 part does have a third that's magnesium
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/

Is dosing a third component still 2-part ?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

A perfectly designed two part , as B-ionic claims to be, will leave an exact seawater residue when the calcium and carbonate (and some magnesium) are consumed. That is, every ion in seawater remains in its natural proportion. So there is no depletion of ions such as, say, fluoride or potassium or sulfate. That is, it is perfectly ionically balanced.

A two part that consists of only sodium carbonate and calcium chloride will leave a residue of just sodium chloride. When the salinity is adjusted back to normal (after being boosted by the sodium and chloride), that means everything else, such as fluoride and potassium and sulfate, decline a bit.

My DIY is somewhere between these two.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

You even mustn't add trace elements. Lots of tanks run very good even without. Especially if you anyhow do waterchanges which do also the same
In case you like a super duper sps dominant tank you might do better with traces

Also, and as I already said. Consumption of Mg which takes place in some tanks, is also not considered in Randy's recipe afaik.

No. My DIY (when used in 3 parts as directed) matches the major ions and using a sodium chloride free salt mix will overdo the sulfate and magnesium, for example.

I do account for both magnesium consumption, and the even bigger effect of it dropping from the salinity boost.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I discuss how these issues work here:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/index.php#19

 

[TbyZ]

No. My DIY (when used in 3 parts as directed) matches the major ions and using a sodium chloride free salt mix will overdo the sulfate and magnesium, for example.

I do account for both magnesium consumption, and the even bigger effect of it dropping from the salinity boost.

So Randy, if Kalkwasser is used exclusively what else needs to be added if one wants to dose all the elements in the ocean like the AF components 1, 2, & 3 claim to do.

 

[Xclusive Reef]

So Randy, if Kalkwasser is used exclusively what else needs to be added if one wants to dose all the elements in the ocean like the AF components 1, 2, & 3 claim to do.

you can actually look at the AF line, I was going to do Randy' s 1,2,3 but AF has reasonable prices . A 5000 Liter jug of each part should last me a few months. http://aquaforest.eu/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Aquaforest_Products-Guide_EN_RGB.pdf in case you want to see what is in AF 1,2,3 and no I am not affiliated with AF in any which way just haring what was shared wit me so you can have options.

 

[TbyZ]

you can actually look at the AF line, I was going to do Randy' s 1,2,3 but AF has reasonable prices . A 5000 Liter jug of each part should last me a few months. http://aquaforest.eu/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Aquaforest_Products-Guide_EN_RGB.pdf in case you want to see what is in AF 1,2,3 and no I am not affiliated with AF in any which way just haring what was shared wit me so you can have options.

yes, I've looked at AF & understand whats in everything.

Here is a useful video that explains what to buy & how to make up the components 1, 2, & 3 from scratch. cheaper than buying the pre-mixed 5 litre containers & very easy.

 

[Martin Kuhn]

I discuss how these issues work here:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/index.php#19

To be honest, this didn't convince at least me. I know about what is going using the 2/3 part salts chemically wise.

Regarding the "ionic balance" i find it MUCH more important to dose in a way matching tanks parameters correctly, than sticking to a 100 % "ironically based dosing recipe". This is a huge difference.
We know that our tanks consume Ca / Alk /Mg very often NOT in a balanced ratio.
Should I know continue a dosing that does not correct this parameters?? This is also ionic dis-balance.
My recommendation is clearly to correct in a way (even if it is dis-balanced dosing), in order to keep the parameters where they should be in our tanks.like natural seawater.
E.g. Not with Ca levels >> 500 just for the sake of Alk not dropping into a much to low range

Also your article does not describe why expensive premixed solutions should be better than if you DIY it. Cooking with water .....

Sorry for any criticism AND knowing that my opinion is somehow against what some people including companies selling expensive pre mixed solutions try to keep us thinking

Martin

 

[TbyZ]

To be honest, this didn't convince at least me. I know about what is going using the 2/3 part salts chemically wise.

Regarding the "ionic balance" i find it MUCH more important to dose in a way matching tanks parameters correctly, than sticking to a 100 % "ironically based dosing recipe". This is a huge difference.
We know that our tanks consume Ca / Alk /Mg very often NOT in a balanced ratio.
Should I know continue a dosing that does not correct this parameters?? This is also ionic dis-balance.
My recommendation is clearly to correct in a way (even if it is dis-balanced dosing), in order to keep the parameters where they should be in our tanks.like natural seawater.
E.g. Not with Ca levels >> 500 just for the sake of Alk not dropping into a much to low range

Also your article does not describe why expensive premixed solutions should be better than if you DIY it. Cooking with water .....

Sorry for any criticism AND knowing that my opinion is somehow against what some people including companies selling expensive pre mixed solutions try to keep us thinking

Martin

I'm pretty sure Randy, & most people here, understand that not all tanks consume the major elements equally

 

[JimWelsh]

To be honest, this didn't convince at least me. I know about what is going using the 2/3 part salts chemically wise.

Regarding the "ionic balance" i find it MUCH more important to dose in a way matching tanks parameters correctly, than sticking to a 100 % "ironically based dosing recipe". This is a huge difference.
We know that our tanks consume Ca / Alk /Mg very often NOT in a balanced ratio.
Should I know continue a dosing that does not correct this parameters?? This is also ionic dis-balance.
My recommendation is clearly to correct in a way (even if it is dis-balanced dosing), in order to keep the parameters where they should be in our tanks.like natural seawater.
E.g. Not with Ca levels >> 500 just for the sake of Alk not dropping into a much to low range

Also your article does not describe why expensive premixed solutions should be better than if you DIY it. Cooking with water .....

Sorry for any criticism AND knowing that my opinion is somehow against what some people including companies selling expensive pre mixed solutions try to keep us thinking

Martin

Randy has provided a very detailed description of his dosing recipes in the linked article, which has been vetted ad nasuem. You provide vague FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt) based nonsense in response.

The only real variable in these equations of any real substance is the ratio of Mg relative to Ca being incorporated. This is easily addressed by monitoring Ca and Mg levels, and dosing extra Ca or Mg when necessary.

This is not as mysterious as you would appear to like to make it sound.

 

[Mindi]

I am a long term user and fan of Randy recipe 1 which costs near to zero and maintains really stable Ca and Alk. I never do the Mg third part because my Mg never seems to deplete..? I do water changes about 10% weekly or a little less.