Rant: Can we make this less expensive without sacrificing quality?

[ReefGeezer]

Costs in this hobby do suck. I understand why quality equipment is expensive. The market is very small for those products. Very high mark-ups are required to make enough profit on the low sales volume. I pay the price because the cheaper alternatives suck in the long term. I have done what I can to reduce costs of operating the system i.e. eliminating and selling off unnecessary equipment, reducing water changes; not using filter socks or mats, and using DIY additives and foods, but the cost is still high.

 

[arafas]

There is a guy that sells rolls, I forget the name but he is much cheaper. I haven't bought from him because certain mods you have to make for inlet pipe diameter. Also his micron is lower which would essentially go quicker and strip more.

 

[Spare time]

Just drop tropic marin. The "quality" they are known for is just their very successful marketing department/campain. Red sea is fine.

 

[arafas]

Outside of capital expense, I would also look into operating expense (labor & time) involved. What worked for me to reduce cost:
1. Salt: no water changes. Outside of the initial purchase to salt the 150g tank, I just keep a little extra salt for supplementation or emergency. Yes, understand that I'm the minority here. I've not been practicing WCs for more than a decade for all my tanks.
2. Filter fleece: disposable Fairfield Poly-fil, bought 20lb bag for $53 that would last me years!
3. pH boost: recirculating CO2 scrubber, bought media in bulk: Jorvet soda lime - 5g. Kalk is too messy and unpredictable trying to balance with CaRx.

Kalk is Def cheaper but my problem now is I use 2 part and need to figure how much kalk to dose and also in conjuction use 2 part at the same time. Or not I guess. Also comes in the question where evap from tank can swing which would cause constant adjustment of how much to dose. So still doing 2 part untill I fully understand how to properly do it.

 

[bakbay]

Kalk is Def cheaper but my problem now is I use 2 part and need to figure how much kalk to dose and also in conjuction use 2 part at the same time. Or not I guess. Also comes in the question where evap from tank can swing which would cause constant adjustment of how much to dose. So still doing 2 part untill I fully understand how to properly do it.

Yes, I've stopped dosing kalk for the same reason. I prefer stable Alk over pegging pH.

 

[arafas]

Yes, I've stopped dosing kalk for the same reason. I prefer stable Alk over pegging pH.

I was looking in to kalk the way It reacts to phosphate. I am using 2 part and co2 scrubber plus I have my range hood on at the moment when I am home to dump excess co2 out of the house. I am lokiing in to erv system. Which essentially would provide fresh air from outside. 2 part I can keep stable vs kalk tinkering based on evap. My Ph day time can reach around 8.4-8.5. I am sure there is some tolerance issue there since I read anything till 11dkh the Ph can only go to 8.3 chemically an not higher from my understanding.

 

[Rtaylor]

Don’t buy into the salt hype. IO is good salt. Making your own fish food will literally save hundreds annually if you buy expensive food like LRS Reef Frenzy, Rod’s, etc. Even the foil packs are stupid expensive if you calculate cost per pound . Typical foil pack is 6 oz and usually at least $6/$7. So that’s $7/.375 lbs= $18.84 per pound. LRS is closer to $45/lb. You can buy a lot more than a pound of seafood for $45 (Asian grocery stores are great for cheap frozen seafood). I’ve found raw frozen seafood mixes for $3-$5 per pound.

You could easily reduce your water changes by 25-50%. Just try it and monitor if you are concerned. You can reduce by 10%, if all is still good, reduce by another 10%, etc.

Have you looked for ‘generic’ fleece rolls? I’d almost guarantee they exist, check eBay.

 

[arafas]

Don’t buy into the salt hype. IO is good salt. Making your own fish food will literally save hundreds annually if you buy expensive food like LRS Reef Frenzy, Rod’s, etc. Even the foil packs are stupid expensive if you calculate cost per pound . Typical foil pack is 6 oz and usually at least $6/$7. So that’s $7/.375 lbs= $18.84 per pound. LRS is closer to $45/lb. You can buy a lot more than a pound of seafood for $45 (Asian grocery stores are great for cheap frozen seafood). I’ve found raw frozen seafood mixes for $3-$5 per pound.

You could easily reduce your water changes by 25-50%. Just try it and monitor if you are concerned. You can reduce by 10%, if all is still good, reduce by another 10%, etc.

Have you looked for ‘generic’ fleece rolls? I’d almost guarantee they exist, check eBay.

Have you seen how much they charge for Nori lol

 

[STLCorals]

Kalk is Def cheaper but my problem now is I use 2 part and need to figure how much kalk to dose and also in conjuction use 2 part at the same time. Or not I guess. Also comes in the question where evap from tank can swing which would cause constant adjustment of how much to dose. So still doing 2 part untill I fully understand how to properly do it.

I would point out it does not have to fluctuate based off evap. If you use it as part of your ato then of course it would. However in many cases you can use fully saturated kalk in a doser and dose a constant amount daily. This of course only works if your evap is greater than how much fully saturated kalk you need to add. In my case on a large system I am now dripping about 5g kalk a day and my evap is about 7 gallons and it works fine. If evap goes up or down a gallon it is irrelevant in this scenario. To me this is a much better solution than adjusting the kalk concentration based off evap since as you say it does change.

 

[arafas]

I would point out it does not have to fluctuate based off evap. If you use it as part of your ato then of course it would. However in many cases you can use fully saturated kalk in a doser and dose a constant amount daily. This of course only works if your evap is greater than how much fully saturated kalk you need to add. In my case on a large system I am now dripping about 5g kalk a day and my evap is about 7 gallons and it works fine. If evap goes up or down a gallon it is irrelevant in this scenario. To me this is a much better solution than adjusting the kalk concentration based off evap since as you say it does change.

OK this makes more sense now. Thanks

 

[ConsummatePro]

I’ve bought custom sized filter rolls from Precision Converting

email [email protected]
Website https://preconfilter.com/

they use coolant paper and these work well for filter rollers. Be aware they have a smaller micron eg 80 and 50. Watch your nutrients as it may be too effective. Much cheaper than the Red Sea Reefmat 1200 (approx $10 each roll vs Red Sea $30 for same length 50 yards).

 

[arafas]

I’ve bought custom sized filter rolls from Precision Converting

email [email protected]
Website https://preconfilter.com/

they use coolant paper and these work well for filter rollers. Be aware they have a smaller micron eg 80 and 50. Watch your nutrients as it may be too effective. Much cheaper than the Red Sea Reefmat 1200 (approx $10 each roll vs Red Sea $30 for same length 50 yards).

I saw those, how you managed the inner core diameter. Also his paper has no chemicals or things like that correct?

 

[Potatohead]

Kalk is Def cheaper but my problem now is I use 2 part and need to figure how much kalk to dose and also in conjuction use 2 part at the same time. Or not I guess. Also comes in the question where evap from tank can swing which would cause constant adjustment of how much to dose. So still doing 2 part untill I fully understand how to properly do it.

Just set the kalk up on a doser to your minimum amount of evap in the year, and dose two part as required on top of that. That's the most stable way that you don't have to mess with during different seasons.

 

[Stick Man]

Just set the kalk up on a doser to your minimum amount of evap in the year, and dose two part as required on top of that. That's the most stable way that you don't have to mess with during different seasons.

My kalk is set up on Ph controller and doser that way I can set my desired Ph at 8.4 my swing is 8.3 to 8.4 my ATO tops of the difference that way I don't get a salinity swing

 

[Tamberav]

1. People use instant ocean successfully over and over

2. Some people buy coolant rolls instead of the branded filter rolls for aquariums

 

[Rtaylor]

Have you seen how much they charge for Nori lol

Yeah, it’s ridiculous. Way cheaper to buy seaweed made for human consumption.

 

[Wasabiroot]

As echoed above...I use blue bucket. Salt is one of the areas where aside from picking one close to the parameters you desire, the gains are tough to quantify. There are several stunning tanks on here (including a few Tank of the Month) that use Reef Crystals/Instant Ocean. To me that's where you could save money most apparently. Even changing to Red Sea, changing less frequently etc would be somewhat of a cost savings.

As an aside, running larger tanks does come with an associated cost that, IMHO, doesn't get discussed enough beforehand. It's just expensive to run big tanks.

I'm leery of filter rollers as well; while I'm sure they're great and do a fantastic job, they essentially amount to a subscription service for filtration ( in my mind anyway) which steers me away from them.

 

[Potatohead]

I'm leery of filter rollers as well; while I'm sure they're great and do a fantastic job, they essentially amount to a subscription service for filtration ( in my mind anyway) which steers me away from them.

That is exactly why I got rid of mine. It absolutely killed my nitrate, to the point where it was lower than I wanted and I had to feed a lot. Plus my skimmer was basically useless with it. Maybe if they made one with 200 micron filter paper instead of 50 like most of them have it would be better. But in the end I was spending money on rolls, only to have to also feed more and my skimmer was more of an aerator. Like most people I hate spending money on consumables and pulled it off.

I think if OP switched to blue bucket and reduced water change by maybe 1/3 he would notice a good difference right there.

 

[Kjames]

Just curious, as I've never used the fleece rollers, and sometimes use the socks (often nothing at all) why can't the fleece roll be washed? I was thinking it could be put in a net bag and washed...

Imagine washing a roll of toilet paper that didn't fall apart - you'd still have a heck of a time rolling all 50ft back up tight to reuse.

 

[Kjames]

Outside of capital expense, I would also look into operating expense (labor & time) involved. What worked for me to reduce cost:
1. Salt: no water changes. Outside of the initial purchase to salt the 150g tank, I just keep a little extra salt for supplementation or emergency. Yes, understand that I'm the minority here. I've not been practicing WCs for more than a decade for all my tanks.
2. Filter fleece: disposable Fairfield Poly-fil, bought 20lb bag for $53 that would last me years!
3. pH boost: recirculating CO2 scrubber, bought media in bulk: Jorvet soda lime - 5g. Kalk is too messy and unpredictable trying to balance with CaRx.

I like the Poly-fil. Super cost effective.