REALLY struggling to keep coral... suggestions!?!

reynaldoramon · Jun 29, 2015

If you ever want to investigate dinos more... It's discussed pretty in-depth here. I have them.. Thought they were diatom bloom at first. Luckily I don't have an aggressive strain because I don't have a lot of loss from them, it just looks ugly. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2307000

reynaldoramon · Jun 29, 2015

Oh crap. Just realized that's from the other forum I'm on.. Not sure if that's allowed. With Tapatalk is all just integrated on my notifications... Hard to tell which forum sometimes.

Daytonareefing · Jun 29, 2015

I went through the same thing thinking because we use so many watt metal halides that having my leds turned way up is the right thing to do. I lost a bunch of lps over time and my other corals looked ok but would not grow. They really need to put a book out with the leds as a guide on how better to use them but most manufactures don't include any instructions. Thats why so many people say leds will not grow corals and go back to t5's or MH.

mdelgado0 · Jul 1, 2015

Struggling

I have been battling the same problem as you described. I built an algae scrubber to battle the algae in my tank (30 Gallon Cube) and my sump (bubble algae). I believe that's where my problems started the scrubber worked really good, algae is gone in the tank, increase of Coraline algae, and a lowered PH. I Have not been able to adjust for the changes, with the onset of summer (I live in Phoenix) it brought more problems with keeping the tank cool. With Some trouble shooting I found my heaters were not calibrated correctly. So at that point I calibrated the heaters, lowered my % on my lighting, half of my original setting, and added a cooling fan. That solved my overheating problem and most corals recovered some plats that looked like they were melting even came back. That solved that issue. My leathers, zoas, and mushrooms are all doing well. LPS and SPS not so much same issue you had with your Corals. I'm losing an LPS at a rate of about 1 every 2 weeks, 3 so far (7 left) they are shrinking similar to the pictures you have of yours.

Reading some of the comments I am going to make some changes with my dosing and water changes. Someone stated your tank may be to clean, that is the only thing I can make changes to that my solve my problem, so I'm thinking I need to lower my dosing to a lower range and change my water changes to 10% (18% previously) or maybe every other week. I have also noticed a reduced amount of algae growth in my scrubber. I though my tank was ready for SPS corals, LPS and others were doing fine showing signs of growth.

I'm almost done building my 120 setup, so I need get this figured out. I'm going to keep an eye on your post, and give some feedback on my changes. This has been a hard process getting into the reef hobby ($$$), and I have learned so much from people like you posting there experiences.

Thanks

ps2cho · Jul 1, 2015

So fwiw I ran into a very similar issue 6 months ago...Every sps would eventually RTN and die.

I routed it down a couple potential issues --
1 - I had used some gorilla glue on some rocks and it may have leached something into the water.
2 - way too much fluctuations in alk. Even though it was less than 1 dkh.

I suggest looking at both of these. Look for damaged equipment, rusted magnets...anything than you may have used that is man made.

Then after that I suggest ensuing your alk is rock solid...I mean so solid that it's not moving more than 0.25 dkh in a week. I had to get some BRS doser to accomplish this.

My sps are growing now after a year of death even though my numbers were on. I lean towards the gorilla glue but who knows. Over thr course of 3 months from stability and removal of thr rocks with GG on them things started to grow.

Broadfield · Jul 11, 2016

Just wanted to give a 1-year update to this issue.... I had too much light! A couple of months after starting this thread, I bought a much larger tank... with the logic that a larger tank would cure all of my problems lol. Ironically, this time it actually did! After taking the suggestions in this thread into consideration, I decided I would start with my lighting at a really low % on the new tank. I noticed improvement in my corals, that I moved from the old tank that were struggling, almost instantly. I thought I had the lighting at a really low % on the old tank, but I clearly didn't have it low enough. I did not have the typical bleaching that you normally see with intense lighting... so it misguided me in my quest for finding the issue on my old setup. I am now a huge believer in not needing more than 300 PAR anywhere in my tank. I get excellent growth in all of my SPS, LPS etc. I literally can't kill anything now... it's very rewarding after struggling for 2 years. I have also learned a lot in the last year on being able to read my coral and know what's bothering them. My new setup has been running for 10 months now and it's sooooo much more enjoyable to be able to watch everything grow and thrive, instead of watching everything die. So I really want to thank the R2R members that took the time to reply to this thread. I'm pretty sure it was my first post on R2R. Fast forward 1 year and I'm what I would call a regular on here... helping others as was done unto me! Current setup:

IMG_6711 by Toby Broadfield, on Flickr

Triggreef · Jul 11, 2016

Broadfield said:
Measured .8 volts... I think I'm good lol.

My best tank that i use to same any corals having issues, has 118v going through it. Stray voltage is a danger to the reefer, not the reef.

Salty_Space · Dec 27, 2018

Broadfield said:
Issue

I cannot keep LPS or SPS and slightly struggling with some softies.

I have hesitated to even make a post about this for months... trying to figure it out on my own via research on the forums, asking others in the field and plain old trial and error. I have done tons of research, probably too much to be honest with you... it's only making me more unsure.

I will give you as much info as possible about my current setup and the various things I have tried, changed etc. The tank has been up and running for 1 year.

Current Setup

Tank: Innovative Marine Fusion Micro 30L 36" x 11" x 13" - 30 gallon

Lighting: (2) Aqua Illuminations Hydra 52's 8" AWL (have tried various intensities giving it a month at a time). I realize these are a lot of fixture for this tank, but I upgraded them from Vegas in preparation for a 92 gallon. I normally keep these at the following %'s:

UV - 35%
V - 35%
DB - 50%
RB - 45%
G - 17%
R - 7%
CW - 10%

Skimmer: Innovative Marine Ghose Mid-Size

Circulation: (2) MP10W's typically on 25% Reef Crest and a 476 gallon/hr main pump.

Tank Controller: Apex Gold with temp, pH, salinity, ORP, WXM Vortech controller, AWM light controller.

Dosing: 2-part BRS with dosing pumps through Apex

ATO: Innovative Marine

Water Changes: Bi-weeky 20% (BRS 5-stage RO/DI) change filters at least once/year. TDS never reads anything but 0.00.

Filtration: I only use the yellow particulate sponge that comes with the tank on each overflow. I rinse these every 1-2 weeks.

Substrate: 1-1/2" of CaribSea Arag-Alive

Liverock: Properly cured/seeded Marco Dry Rock

Parameters

Temp: 77.5 - 78.5 (Tested with Apex probe)

pH: 8.05 - 8.25 (Tested with Apex probe)

ORP: 300 - 400 (Tested with Apex probe)... still not really sure how to utilize this reading.

Salinity: 33 (Tested with Apex probe) Checked against refractometer

Calcium: 420 - 440 (Tested with Hanna Checker)

Alkalinity: 8.5 (Tested with Hanna Checker)

Magnesium: 1350 - 1400 (Tested with Red Sea)

Phosphate: 0.00 (Tested with Hanna Checker LR)

Nitrate: 0.00 (Tested with Red Sea)

Nitrite: 0.00 (Tested with Hanna Checker ULR)

Phosphorus: 29 ppb (Tested with Hanna Checker ULR) = 0.089 ppm inorganic phosphate

Notes

I have tried feeding with Reef-Roids and/or mysis.

I have tried multiple coral vendors.

I have tried running GFO and/or GAC... no difference.

I have a very slight amount of short green hair algae tuffs here and there. Never really gets more than that. Not even enough to easily spot it in the tank. Although it seems to like to grow in my GSP the best.

I have a VERY slight amount of Cyano that slightly discolors the substrate in low flow areas. It disappears at night and slowly reappears throughout the day. It never builds up to where it's a mat of Cyano.

I have to swipe the glass every 2 days... maybe 3.

I grow purple coralline algae without issue. All rock work and MP10's are purpled up.

Fish Etc.

(3) Yellow tail damsels

(1) Blood red fire shrimp

(1) brittle star

(-) various snails

Corals that have survived the life of the tank

Green polyp leather... beautiful specimen

GSP... who cares, it's GSP

Couple zoa... don't really grow much, but look healthy

Various pipe organ coral

Purple cauliflower coral

Toadstool leather

As you can see, nothing very cool in the coral department. And are all pretty much un-killable.

Corals that I have tried and the outcome

I have tried virtually everything at one point or another. Over the last 9 months I have tried close to 100 frags. Various Montis, Acroporas, Duncans, Acans, Gonis, Favias, Stylos, Pocilloporas, Alveoporas, Euphyllias, Turbinarias, Trachyphyllias and others that have failed... even Ricordeas and other softies.

Most LPS simply "fade" away after I get them. They completely open up once in the tank and look good for a few days. Then they slowly recede and just shrivel up smaller and smaller until the polyp(s) is just gone. This usually takes about a month or so. Sometimes longer, sometimes less. Euphyllias always end up with polyp bailout.

SPS have good polyp extension for a few days then slowly come out less and less. Then I usually get RTN or STN.

I have specifically tried a ton of Acan frags... they are one of my favorites. So I really would like to focus on these at the moment. When I get the frag, the polyps are large and fluffy for a few days. Then they very slowly get smaller and smaller over a few weeks... exposing more and more of the skeleton. The best I can describe is that they simply shrink in size until there isn't much left. Their color stays 100% perfect throughout this process. Even when there is next to nothing left of the coral, its color is VERY vivid. I feed them a couple times/week... Reef-Roids and/or mysis shrimp. They are always located on the sand bed. I have tried different light intensities, for a couple of weeks at a time, and see absolutely zero difference. I have gone to each extreme and everywhere in between. Mp10's are set up at each end of the tank. One towards the back and the opposite one towards the front. I run 25 - 50% Reef Crest mode in anti-sync mode. My rock work is setup linear so there is room the length of the tank in the front and the back. So I have really good water circulation. I have tried lower settings, higher settings... same results. My Acans are located near the ends where flow is the least. But have tried them in different locations to see if I can get more life out of them.

It doesn't seem to matter if I dip them, how I acclimate them etc... same outcome every time. Here are some images, for reference, of my latest frags. As you can see, the Acans still have nice color, but simply just shrivel away. I don't typically have the frags all crammed together like this, but placed them on this ledge for picture taking.

These Acans are all 3 weeks old
Nice and puffy when placed in tank, with excellent feeder tentacle extension. They looked decent for about 5-7 days... then started receding.

Candy Cane... not much left of it. Also about 3 weeks old.

Bowers 3 weeks old:

Nice and puffy when I put them in the tank.. and were so for about 7 days. Then slowly started shriveling up/receding.

3 weeks old

Left: A freebie that I'm not sure what it was... chalice of some sorts.

Right: Poker Star monti - I'm not sure if it's bleached or what... but it has always been on the bed. It's kind of just a dull grey now with zero polyp extension. Started fading about 7-10 days after placing it in the tank.

Salty_Space · Dec 27, 2018

Broadfield said:
Issue

I cannot keep LPS or SPS and slightly struggling with some softies.

I have hesitated to even make a post about this for months... trying to figure it out on my own via research on the forums, asking others in the field and plain old trial and error. I have done tons of research, probably too much to be honest with you... it's only making me more unsure.

I will give you as much info as possible about my current setup and the various things I have tried, changed etc. The tank has been up and running for 1 year.

Current Setup

Tank: Innovative Marine Fusion Micro 30L 36" x 11" x 13" - 30 gallon

Lighting: (2) Aqua Illuminations Hydra 52's 8" AWL (have tried various intensities giving it a month at a time). I realize these are a lot of fixture for this tank, but I upgraded them from Vegas in preparation for a 92 gallon. I normally keep these at the following %'s:

UV - 35%
V - 35%
DB - 50%
RB - 45%
G - 17%
R - 7%
CW - 10%

Skimmer: Innovative Marine Ghose Mid-Size

Circulation: (2) MP10W's typically on 25% Reef Crest and a 476 gallon/hr main pump.

Tank Controller: Apex Gold with temp, pH, salinity, ORP, WXM Vortech controller, AWM light controller.

Dosing: 2-part BRS with dosing pumps through Apex

ATO: Innovative Marine

Water Changes: Bi-weeky 20% (BRS 5-stage RO/DI) change filters at least once/year. TDS never reads anything but 0.00.

Filtration: I only use the yellow particulate sponge that comes with the tank on each overflow. I rinse these every 1-2 weeks.

Substrate: 1-1/2" of CaribSea Arag-Alive

Liverock: Properly cured/seeded Marco Dry Rock

Parameters

Temp: 77.5 - 78.5 (Tested with Apex probe)

pH: 8.05 - 8.25 (Tested with Apex probe)

ORP: 300 - 400 (Tested with Apex probe)... still not really sure how to utilize this reading.

Salinity: 33 (Tested with Apex probe) Checked against refractometer

Calcium: 420 - 440 (Tested with Hanna Checker)

Alkalinity: 8.5 (Tested with Hanna Checker)

Magnesium: 1350 - 1400 (Tested with Red Sea)

Phosphate: 0.00 (Tested with Hanna Checker LR)

Nitrate: 0.00 (Tested with Red Sea)

Nitrite: 0.00 (Tested with Hanna Checker ULR)

Phosphorus: 29 ppb (Tested with Hanna Checker ULR) = 0.089 ppm inorganic phosphate

Notes

I have tried feeding with Reef-Roids and/or mysis.

I have tried multiple coral vendors.

I have tried running GFO and/or GAC... no difference.

I have a very slight amount of short green hair algae tuffs here and there. Never really gets more than that. Not even enough to easily spot it in the tank. Although it seems to like to grow in my GSP the best.

I have a VERY slight amount of Cyano that slightly discolors the substrate in low flow areas. It disappears at night and slowly reappears throughout the day. It never builds up to where it's a mat of Cyano.

I have to swipe the glass every 2 days... maybe 3.

I grow purple coralline algae without issue. All rock work and MP10's are purpled up.

Fish Etc.

(3) Yellow tail damsels

(1) Blood red fire shrimp

(1) brittle star

(-) various snails

Corals that have survived the life of the tank

Green polyp leather... beautiful specimen

GSP... who cares, it's GSP

Couple zoa... don't really grow much, but look healthy

Various pipe organ coral

Purple cauliflower coral

Toadstool leather

As you can see, nothing very cool in the coral department. And are all pretty much un-killable.

Corals that I have tried and the outcome

I have tried virtually everything at one point or another. Over the last 9 months I have tried close to 100 frags. Various Montis, Acroporas, Duncans, Acans, Gonis, Favias, Stylos, Pocilloporas, Alveoporas, Euphyllias, Turbinarias, Trachyphyllias and others that have failed... even Ricordeas and other softies.

Most LPS simply "fade" away after I get them. They completely open up once in the tank and look good for a few days. Then they slowly recede and just shrivel up smaller and smaller until the polyp(s) is just gone. This usually takes about a month or so. Sometimes longer, sometimes less. Euphyllias always end up with polyp bailout.

SPS have good polyp extension for a few days then slowly come out less and less. Then I usually get RTN or STN.

I have specifically tried a ton of Acan frags... they are one of my favorites. So I really would like to focus on these at the moment. When I get the frag, the polyps are large and fluffy for a few days. Then they very slowly get smaller and smaller over a few weeks... exposing more and more of the skeleton. The best I can describe is that they simply shrink in size until there isn't much left. Their color stays 100% perfect throughout this process. Even when there is next to nothing left of the coral, its color is VERY vivid. I feed them a couple times/week... Reef-Roids and/or mysis shrimp. They are always located on the sand bed. I have tried different light intensities, for a couple of weeks at a time, and see absolutely zero difference. I have gone to each extreme and everywhere in between. Mp10's are set up at each end of the tank. One towards the back and the opposite one towards the front. I run 25 - 50% Reef Crest mode in anti-sync mode. My rock work is setup linear so there is room the length of the tank in the front and the back. So I have really good water circulation. I have tried lower settings, higher settings... same results. My Acans are located near the ends where flow is the least. But have tried them in different locations to see if I can get more life out of them.

It doesn't seem to matter if I dip them, how I acclimate them etc... same outcome every time. Here are some images, for reference, of my latest frags. As you can see, the Acans still have nice color, but simply just shrivel away. I don't typically have the frags all crammed together like this, but placed them on this ledge for picture taking.

These Acans are all 3 weeks old
Nice and puffy when placed in tank, with excellent feeder tentacle extension. They looked decent for about 5-7 days... then started receding.

Candy Cane... not much left of it. Also about 3 weeks old.

Bowers 3 weeks old:

Nice and puffy when I put them in the tank.. and were so for about 7 days. Then slowly started shriveling up/receding.

3 weeks old

Left: A freebie that I'm not sure what it was... chalice of some sorts.

Right: Poker Star monti - I'm not sure if it's bleached or what... but it has always been on the bed. It's kind of just a dull grey now with zero polyp extension. Started fading about 7-10 days after placing it in the tank.

Water temp