Reason people Aim for 1-2 Nitrates? A myth?

[Nigel35]

So I have always heard the aquarium trade generally aim for nitrates to be quite low i.e. 1-2 and the like. Check Red Sea's ideal nutrient levels for mixed reef, and sps dominant tanks. What I have learned and IMO the reason for this is for your corals to have the brightest, most flashy colors the coral can give, BUT the downside is an extremely low margin for personal error. Another words you may be able to keep your nitrates at that certain level for a time but it is nearly impossible to keep them at this golden level forever. You nutrients will bottom out and then your corals will die/bleach because their is no buffer for your nutrient levels in case of a problem.You would need autonomous perfection in order for this type of approach to work IMO. Their is no margin for human error, and I am sure as we all are that as humans we make mistakes... lots of mistakes. I believe that is why many hobbyists have such a difficult time with their corals, trying to get their nutrients at this industrial standard which might last for a while but then will not serve them well in the end. My approach is to have a 1/100 ratio of phosphates and nitrates and IT WORKS. Excellent coral growth and polyp extension. This way you don't have to aim for an impossible aquarium trade standard. Your corals may not have the greatest color BUT your corals will grow faster, still retain exquisite color and, you provide a bit of muscle on your corals so that they can survive a fallout. I would greatly appreciate some input on all this. Thanks.

Nigel

 

[Jekyl]

I like mine between 10 and 20

 

[dvgyfresh]

I like my nitrates anywhere from 10-40, but I do not let phosphates go above .5 ppm, I like to treat my tank as a buffet where anyone can eat at any given time lol it curves aggression/doesn’t allow Dino’s and keeps anemones happy

 

[Nigel35]

I like my nitrates anywhere from 10-40, but I do not let phosphates go above .5 ppm, I like to treat my tank as a buffet where anyone can eat at any given time lol it curves aggression/doesn’t allow Dino’s and keeps anemones happy

My thoughts exactly

 

[Cory]

I aim for 1 to 2ppm no3 because ive read studies that say nitrate reduced skeletal growth

Google Scholar

scholar.google.ca

 

[mdb_talon]

A ratio goal in itself makes no sense to me. I mean 1/100 may be fine if that means .1 phosphate and 10 nitrate. If it means 1 phosphate and 100 nitrate then i would say not good. Personally my goal is always around .1 phosphate and less than 20 nitrates so i guess i do a similar ratio. However if my nitrates drop down to 2 or 3 i dont get too concerned but i do feed a bit more and depending on phosphate levels may may need to put in a few drops of lanthium chloride a day to keep it down. In my more established system though its seems to stay pretty steady around .08 phosphate and around 5 nitrate and i am perfectly fine with that.

 

[Cory]

I like to do a "upwelling" of nutrients in my tank like nature would. Dose, no3 gets consumed and numbers drop to zero. Then repeat. Sort of like deep ocean currents on a fore reef being upwelled. I tend to treat my corals like fish, they need to be fed.

 

[Nigel35]

A ratio goal in itself makes no sense to me. I mean 1/100 may be fine if that means .1 phosphate and 10 nitrate. If it means 1 phosphate and 100 nitrate then i would say not good. Personally my goal is always around .1 phosphate and less than 20 nitrates so i guess i do a similar ratio. However if my nitrates drop down to 2 or 3 i dont get too concerned but i do feed a bit more and depending on phosphate levels may may need to put in a few drops of lanthium chloride a day to keep it down. In my more established system though its seems to stay pretty steady around .08 phosphate and around 5 nitrate and i am perfectly fine with that.

The nutrient goal ideally would be to have 10 nitrates and .1 phosphates. Realistically 100 nitrates is not plausible but I get your point

 

[TheDuude]

I shoot for no3 of 10 and detectable p04. I does Nopox to hold the level where I want and feed heavy. I find that every couple months I will need to dose a tiny bit of p04.

 

[LRT]

Wish I did know where those low numbers actually came from. Maybe for new start up tanks and establishing biodiversity but even then I see more harm than good especially on new start ups and dinos.
Its been proven too many times here at R2R that higher nutrient tanks can be extremely successful. Check out @SBB Corals grow thread for example.
There are also good examples on the other end of spectrum. However.
The only time I've ever had major issues is chasing numbers when my corals looked happy. I should have left things well enough alone.
That being said I am curious and if even possible to test. What the actual nutrient levels are on a totally healthy and abundant reef packed with fish and critters expelling nutrients. Id imagine there's alot of nutrients available but alof of nutrients being exported as well.
I'm at the point im feeding my reef. Sumps are set up with tons of aeration, movement and gas exchange to mimmick reef. Setting my fish room up for proper air exchange. On top of that ive built a couple diy algae turf scrubbers to help with nutrient export.
I've also found that some mushroom corals won't bounce in lower nutrients and actually prefer higher Nitrates between 20 and 40 and they thrive.

I'm shooting for 10-20 Nitrates now. Not scared if it creeps up to 40ppm between water changes. Looking to keep phosphates around .05-1 but not scared if they get to 1 or a little higher.

Waiting to see where these algae scrubbers put me in a cpl months Goal is higher nutrient import and export coupled with fresh air/gas exchange.
So far so good

 

[Crashjack]

I've learned that the best way to judge nutrients in a mixed reef is by watching to see if I’m getting some green growth on the glass, seeing if my chaeto is growing, and seeing if my coralline algae is growing. Another tell-tale is zoas not opening fully, especially under strong lighting. If I'm not getting green growth on the glass, seeing chaeto growing, seeing my coralline algae growing, and zoas are not opening fully, my nutrients are too low. I've also learned that GHA and cyano often lead to wild goose chases in regards to nutrients, which often results in bigger problems like dinos. Unless you are running some sort of system… Zeovit, ULNS, etc. in an SPS dominant tank, I would let my eyes tell me whether or not my nutrient levels are ok instead of shooting for specific nitrate/phosphate levels or ratios.

 

[sp1187]

NO3 30-60
PO4 .9/1.2

just what it is. most stuff I have does well. a few do not so I rehome them.

 

[Timfish]

Nitrates are corals least favorite form of nitrogen. They much prefer the organic forms amino acids and urea (fish poop) and the inorganic forms ammonia/ammonium (excreted from fish gills). Besides inhibiting skeletogenisis as pointed out by @Cory nitrate enrichment has negative effects on coral photobiology during times of thermal stress. (How many of us have lost AC recently?) It is true many aquarists have high nitrate levels but that doesn't negate the research any more than the lifetime smokers who don't get lung cancer negate the research showing smoking causes lung cancer. It is also a false narrative to equate faster growth in a coral as being indicative of a healthy coral. If anything the inverse is true as faster growth can have a negative impact of coral immune systems.

 

[alimac122]

So I have always heard the aquarium trade generally aim for nitrates to be quite low i.e. 1-2 and the like. Check Red Sea's ideal nutrient levels for mixed reef, and sps dominant tanks. What I have learned and IMO the reason for this is for your corals to have the brightest, most flashy colors the coral can give, BUT the downside is an extremely low margin for personal error. Another words you may be able to keep your nitrates at that certain level for a time but it is nearly impossible to keep them at this golden level forever. You nutrients will bottom out and then your corals will die/bleach because their is no buffer for your nutrient levels in case of a problem.You would need autonomous perfection in order for this type of approach to work IMO. Their is no margin for human error, and I am sure as we all are that as humans we make mistakes... lots of mistakes. I believe that is why many hobbyists have such a difficult time with their corals, trying to get their nutrients at this industrial standard which might last for a while but then will not serve them well in the end. My approach is to have a 1/100 ratio of phosphates and nitrates and IT WORKS. Excellent coral growth and polyp extension. This way you don't have to aim for an impossible aquarium trade standard. Your corals may not have the greatest color BUT your corals will grow faster, still retain exquisite color and, you provide a bit of muscle on your corals so that they can survive a fallout. I would greatly appreciate some input on all this. Thanks.

Nigel

My phosphates hang out around 0.5 and my nitrates hang out around 40-60. I have some algae growth, but not overgrown. I also do not have a floss bag in my sump but a filter basket. I personally do not care for a “crystal clear” tank and think seeing particulates float around gives me peace of mind there is always food for the filter feeders

 

[blstravler]

I like my nitrates anywhere from 10-40, but I do not let phosphates go above .5 ppm, I like to treat my tank as a buffet where anyone can eat at any given time lol it curves aggression/doesn’t allow Dino’s and keeps anemones happy

Well said!

 

[Jfast]

I always stay between PO4 .03-.10
And with NO3 5-15 and everything is happy

 

[Brandon McHenry]

I personally see no reason why you can’t run low nutrients with great success. I find that the corals grow faster and look nicer that way. I run my tank at 0.2ppm NO3 and 0.03ppm PO4. I feed my fish 5 times per day (4 on an auto feeder and once with a frozen mix) but run chaetomorpha, a skimmer and weekly water changes. Heavy in and heavy out has always been my mentality. Here is my tank for reference

 

[vetteguy53081]

Ive always maintained .4 - .5
Elevated nitrate is often associated with algae, and indeed the growth of algae is often spurred by excess nutrients, including nitrate. The same can be said for other potential pests in aquaria, such as dinoflagellates. Nitrate itself is not acutely toxic at the levels usually attained in aquaria, at least as it is so far known in the scientific literature, but elevated levels do seem detrimental to the health of fish. Additionally, elevated nitrate can spur the growth of zooxanthellae in corals, which can darken corals and may decrease the growth rate of a host coral.
For these reasons, most reef aquarists strive to keep nitrate levels down. Some are very successful, and others are not. In some circumstances and for some organisms that use nitrate, elevated levels of nitrate can result in increased growth. Microalgae in reef aquaria can grow faster in higher nitrate if they have adequate phosphorus, iron, light, etc. Large organisms are impacted as well.
In addition to the concerns described above relating to the growth of potentially undesirable organisms that may be promoted by elevated nitrate (especially algae and dinoflagellates), corals can be impacted by nitrate. Many corals may not be bothered by elevated nitrate, or may even grow more rapidly with the readily available nitrogen. But in certain corals, especially those that calcify, there may be negative effects from elevated nitrate.
The primary source of nitrate in reef aquaria is food added to the system. All proteins contain nitrogen, as do a wide variety of other biomolecules. When metabolized, much of this nitrogen can end up as nitrate. Fish and other organisms excrete ammonia after digesting food, for example, and nitrifying bacteria quickly convert ammonia into nitrite and then into nitrate. When your nitrate seems mysteriously high- Check your water source first before assuming the tank has an issue.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I personally see no reason why you can’t run low nutrients with great success. I find that the corals grow faster and look nicer that way. I run my tank at 0.2ppm NO3 and 0.03ppm PO4. I feed my fish 5 times per day (4 on an auto feeder and once with a frozen mix) but run chaetomorpha, a skimmer and weekly water changes. Heavy in and heavy out has always been my mentality. Here is my tank for reference

Agree.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Running at .4 nitrate: