Reasons for nitrate levels going up?

[Fsh]

Hi all,

My tank has been running for two months and has had fish in it for three weeks.

Amonia has been down and fine. Phosphate goes up slowly over time as I have a man made dry rock that leaches it’s, though I e been able to keep this under control to a degree.

Nitrate has been been going up faster, however. See attached photos (one and two) 10 days apart. I did one, 10 litre eater change (75L tank) two days ago. Yet it’s up? I mix my own salt, and have a new RODI unit. I tested the new water and it’s very very marginally pink (photo three). Should it be remotely pink? It’s a new 5 stage system. Do I need to add another stage?

What could be the cause of it rising? I try to feed lightly, though struggle to know if they’ve eaten enough. I have just two juvenile clowns. I feed once a day, and change between frozen mysis, lice bryne shrimp and pellets (very small pellets).

Any help appreciated. Thanks.

 

[lapin]

You might not have enough bacteria yet to keep nitrate down. It will come down as you tank matures
Causes are; over feeding, not enough rock, young tank, nitrates in water change water, not changing 10% water per week.

 

[AcroNem]

Your system is new and still stabilizing, but nitrates will still rise as long as you're adding food of any kind to the system and if there's anything producing waste at all. Also if you don't have anything that consumes nitrates, it isn't going to go anywhere without water changes and 10% every week or two weeks isn't going to bring them down unfortunately.

 

[Fsh]

Thanks both,

I’ve ordered everything for ZEOvit system. Just trying to bring Nitrate down beforehand.

 

[lilgrounchuck]

Your nitrate will keep going up unless you get a way to export it. Nitrifying bacteria are processing ammonia and nitrite, giving you more nitrate. Your fish and their food are providing the ammonia source for that bacteria to feed on and process.

 

[Hemmdog]

Thanks both,

I’ve ordered everything for ZEOvit system. Just trying to bring Nitrate down beforehand.

You have a skimmer right? You need that for Zeovit.

 

[Fsh]

Thanks @lilgrounchuck. I put in nitrifying bacteria when I put the fish in (ATM Colony). Is it worth adding more? Would it be sensible to add more fish? Or another one?

@Hemmdog, yeah I have a skimmer. Not sure if I’m running it optimally though?

 

[lapin]

I’ve ordered everything for ZEOvit system. Just trying to bring Nitrate down beforehand.

If you want to reduce nitrates change out 50% to 80% of your water.

 

[Fsh]

Is it safe for the fish to do a water change that large?

I know people sometimes do that high, what I don’t understand is why are you dispose to drip aclimate fish if you can change a large percentage of the water in your tank?

Thanks Lapin

 

[lapin]

You are supposed to match you new water salinty with the old water. Salinity matters a lot to fish. Thats the #1 reason for aclimation.

 

[Fsh]

You are supposed to match you new water salinty with the old water. Salinity matters a lot to fish. Thats the #1 reason for aclimation.

Okay thanks. So the most important thing with the water change is ensuring salinity is the same?

 

[lilgrounchuck]

Your nitrate will keep going up unless you get a way to export it. Nitrifying bacteria are processing ammonia and nitrite, giving you more nitrate. Your fish and their food are providing the ammonia source for that bacteria to feed on and process.

Thanks @lilgrounchuck. I put in nitrifying bacteria when I put the fish in (ATM Colony). Is it worth adding more? Would it be sensible to add more fish? Or another one?

@Hemmdog, yeah I have a skimmer. Not sure if I’m running it optimally though?

no, don’t add more fish. Adding more bottled bacteria won’t hurt, but it won’t get rid of your nitrates. That nitrifying bacteria is what is turning the ammonia in your tank (which will kill all inhabitants very quickly) into nitrite (not as bad as ammonia) and then to nitrate (not ideal, but not lethal for fish unless it’s really high concentrations).

my advice would be to just stick with water changes of matching salinity and don’t add anymore livestock for a while. Also, look up the nitrogen cycle with regard to aquaria. Get the basics down. I definitely wouldn’t recommend you jumping into nutrient management systems requiring you to know your water chemistry and dose accordingly at this point. Keep it simple. Just because you see people on here with dosing regimens and complicated systems they use to run tanks doesn’t mean you should jump on one after running a tank for a few weeks.

 

[NS Mike D]

since the ammonia isn't spiking with fish, can we assume this is a complete cycle? And if so, would it make sense to add a hardy coral or two that would uptake some of the NO3 and PO4 along export via with water changes?

 

[Fsh]

Thanks @lilgrounchuck, would it be safer to do 25% today and 25% tomorrow rather than 50% today? But does that not dilute as much?

@NS Mike D, I had considered that. But don’t want to put my lights on until I have nutrients under control. Because I don’t want to encounter algae problems. Would like to get nutrients down, then get ZEOvit established, then put the lights on for coral. Think that’s wise?

 

[fish farmer]

Okay thanks. So the most important thing with the water change is ensuring salinity is the same?

And temperature with new water as well.

 

[NS Mike D]

Thanks @lilgrounchuck, would it be safer to do 25% today and 25% tomorrow rather than 50% today? But does that not dilute as much?

@NS Mike D, I had considered that. But don’t want to put my lights on until I have nutrients under control. Because I don’t want to encounter algae problems. Would like to get nutrients down, then get ZEOvit established, then put the lights on for coral. Think that’s wise?

have you thought through the Zeovit stage that releases the mulm.

Also, It does not remove NO2 and NO3. I removs the NH3, which is good. But whatever NH3 /NH4 that your bacteria get to before the Zeolit, will become nitrates.


from their fact sheet:


"The mulm, released from the ZEOvit® material, contains bacteria that are used as food by the corals."

"The material does not directly remove nitrite (NO2), nitrate (NO3), or phosphate (PO4) from the tank water. It permanently absorbs ammonium (NH4 + ) and ammonia (NH3), the first two chemicals in the nitrification cycle, thus preventing the formation of nitrite (NO2) and nitrate (NO3)."

 

[ScottB]

I think it is great you have your test kits already going at 2 months. But I would not get too terribly concerned about managing against the results (except for salinity & temperature) at this point. The biome is young, it is just doing its thing. Settle into a good (not overly invasive) husbandry routine as the tank finds its own equilibrium.

If you are running without lights (I think I read) then you have your answer as to rising nitrates. Without light, the nitrate eating organisms can't consume it.

 

[Fsh]

Thanks all,

@fish farmer I do heat my water as I mix it, yes. Thank you!

@NS Mike D okay, but it will stop it rising further long-term will it not? As in, I’d be able to feed heavier and not worry about it rising? Should I run GFO with it?

@ScottB, yes you’re correct I’m keeping the lights off. I have a Kessil A360 Tuna Blue. I’ve kept it off as BRS recommends keeping lights off for the first four months to give bacteria an advantage over algae. Do you not believe this to be the case?

 

[NS Mike D]

@NS Mike D okay, but it will stop it rising further long-term will it not? As in, I’d be able to feed heavier and not worry about it rising? Should I run GFO with it?

I am in the camp not to add anything to a tank (chemicals, bacteria, equipment) unless it's to address something for which you can detect. Of course there are exceptions. I've come to that conclusion after spending/wasting a lot of money and the pain of unintended consequences.

You have a nano tank, so one school of thought is that all you need is regular water changes. BRS recently did a video tour of all the tanks in their facility - every employee has at least one. They came to woman's cubical who had two identical nanos, and with all their knowledge, and to their surprise, the tank that was only using water changes was clearly looking better than the other tank that was getting pampered. Go figure.

New tanks can be like schrodingers cat. You won't know until you actually open and look into that box. Until, the answers can be yes and no.

We have tanks cycled and set up in one day (think MACNA shows) and we have tanks that take a year or longer to stock. See what I mean?

So let's think through your tank, keeping in mind there may be no definitive answers, but at least we mitigate any unintended consequences and the steps we take will result in our desired outcome.

This will be giving your tank the best parameters to minimize nuisance algae while providing good husbandry for the livestock.

You have fish so you are adding NO3 and PO4. Tanks are a closed system, so we try to balance the uptake (locking up NO3 and PO4 via photosynthesis/growth) and export. But too much nor too little.

A new tank lacks the biofilm, coraline, microfauna, etc that helps keep algae at bay. So this poses an extra burden on managing NO3 and PO4. General school of thought is that we keep these numbers slightly lower than mature tanks without bottoming them out. My problem with that is the general consensus on the targets about 0.5 ppmNo3 and 0.05ppm PO4 are dangerously low to going zero (zero NO3 can result in dinos which most will agree is the reefers nightmare). numbers I see for mixed reef tanks are closer to 1-2ppm NO3 and 0.08 - 0.12 ppm PO4.

Me, I am a middle of the roader. First, I am open about not trusting my testing. I am unable to tell you which drop ends the test and anytime I do more than one test I get different results. So I figure if I shoot for midpoints I will stay in reasonable ranges while keeping some sense of stability.

So choose target numbers you think you'll be able to maintain if yoi haven't already. I use the Red Sea mixed reef numbers but with ALK in the 8-9 dkh range. Out of experience and with good science behind it, I think the higher alk they recommend is harder to maintain and 8-9dkh is where my tank likes to settle and within and generally acceptable range. This took years of me chasing numbers and tinkering that was totally unnecessary.

Zeolite - Without corals to consume the mulm, I would hold off on using it. While it will help lower NO3, I don't know how the mulm that is release will affect the biology without corals to consume it. As for PO4 I presume withy Zeoolite, the PO4 is consumed along with NO3 that is formed (by the bacteria before ammonia gets to the Zeolite) during photosynthesis along with the mulm as the corals grow.

GFO is risky. I use it sparingly to address PO4 spikes. I have a media reactor with activates carbon. I view activated carbon as insurance since it pulls out toxins that might results from coral warfare or an accidental addition to the tank water. A by product is that it also removes organics which helps keep nutrients down. If my PO4 spikes I will run a little GFO and then remove it when I'm back in balance. I don't think GFO is necessary in the a new tanks and especially with a lights off where there is a lack of light for algae growth. Keep GFO on hand.


If your RODI is 0 TDS and you don't mind spending money and time making saltwater, with the lights off I think large water changes are your best bet. Your fish won't mind and since your tanks is already cycled, the bacteria will be fine. Once you turn on lights and add corals, go back to say 10% weekly water changes.

By the way, if you dd a 75% water change today, I'd bet your NO3 and PO4 would be very acceptable and the fish happy.


As for heavy feeding. Wait until your tank matures and you have the corals to directly up take nutrients along with the Zeolite.


That's my take. I'll leave it here for scrutiny by others in case I am incorrect about any of my assumptions as well as other schools of thought.

 

[ScottB]

@ScottB, yes you’re correct I’m keeping the lights off. I have a Kessil A360 Tuna Blue. I’ve kept it off as BRS recommends keeping lights off for the first four months to give bacteria an advantage over algae. Do you not believe this to be the case?

That is an interesting method for getting started (extended lights off). I get the logic, but cannot say I have heard much about it. I don't know if it just "defers" the uglies or avoids them altogether. I think it does one thing for sure: it allows your biome to mature for four months before dropping corals in. I'd say that is a positive for sure.

Feel free to share the BRS video link.