Recent Switch to All for Reef

[Poseidon83]

Yesterday I made the switch to AFR in my Waterbox 105.4

I’m following the directions of 5mL for every 26 gallons so approximately 16mL in my tank. I’m supposed to maintain that amount for 1 week then slowly increase by 2.5mL per 26 gallons a week

Yesterday morning before switching my values were: 7.51 ALK, 418 Ca, 1427 Mg

Today just over 24 hours after starting my values are : 6.53 Alk, 399 Ca (stable) and 1418 Mg.

My question is should I continue dosing alkalinity to maintain stability temporarily or just let things settle out then increase per the directions?

Any advice is much appreciated.

 

[PBar]

Dear colleague,
welcome to the forum! You will enjoy a lot here.

I assume that you already have corals in the tank, right?
If so, you might get indeed into troubles if you don’t adjust the Alk soon…

Honestly, I don’t see any issues in increase the AFR dosage… particularly because the 3 measures are in balance already.
Just be careful, because you need to wait 24h at least (as you did) to check the effects in Alk.

In my case, I had to dose more alkalinity in the beginning mostly because my calcium was at 500 and Alk was at 6.

Good luck!
Cheers

 

[Poseidon83]

Dear colleague,
welcome to the forum! You will enjoy a lot here.

I assume that you already have corals in the tank, right?
If so, you might get indeed into troubles if you don’t adjust the Alk soon…

Honestly, I don’t see any issues in increase the AFR dosage… particularly because the 3 measures are in balance already.
Just be careful, because you need to wait 24h at least (as you did) to check the effects in Alk.

In my case, I had to dose more alkalinity in the beginning mostly because my calcium was at 500 and Alk was at 6.

Good luck!
Cheers

Thanks for the response! Yes, I do have corals and fish in the tank.

My next ALK check is at 6pm so depending on the reading I’ll dose baking soda to get things back up slight then increase my AFR dose in the morning

 

[PBar]

Hello,
that makes sense. Keep us posted!
Cheers

 

[Shirak]

I run AFR on my frag tank system and dosing about 35ml/day on a 50g system. I test alk a few times a week with my hanna tester and dose baking soda as the alk slowly drops at my current dosage. They recommend dosing based on Ca but I find it a pain to test regularly so I just bump alk a little as needed. Couple times a month I will take a sample and let my trident run the numbers on Alk/Ca/Mg. I also will use the Salifert kits for Ca and Mg and K. Keep an eye on your K.. there isn't any in AFR

 

[Poseidon83]

I run AFR on my frag tank system and dosing about 35ml/day on a 50g system. I test alk a few times a week with my hanna tester and dose baking soda as the alk slowly drops at my current dosage. They recommend dosing based on Ca but I find it a pain to test regularly so I just bump alk a little as needed. Couple times a month I will take a sample and let my trident run the numbers on Alk/Ca/Mg. I also will use the Salifert kits for Ca and Mg and K. Keep an eye on your K.. there isn't any in AFR

Thanks for the input. What level are you maintaining your ALK at?

Since starting my dosing mine seems to have leveled out. It’s around 6.78-6.99

I’ll keep increasing slowly to try to get that up around 8 dKH.

 

[Shirak]

Thanks for the input. What level are you maintaining your ALK at?

Since starting my dosing mine seems to have leveled out. It’s around 6.78-6.99

I’ll keep increasing slowly to try to get that up around 8 dKH.

I try to stay between 8.5 and 9. My DT which has a CaRx is round 8.8-9 so I like to keep them in the same range. I find that the Frag system on AFR slowly drops from around 9 to low 8s over the course of a week.

You may find with the correct dose that it stays around 8 on it's own.

 

[Hooz]

When you first start on AFR, I've found that it's important to dose consistently for 2-3 days before adjusting based on alkalinity. At the beginning it takes a while for the solution to be metabolized and show up on the alk test.

 

[chipchipbro]

Hey guys

I started with AFR 2 days ago.. Now my Alk was 8…
After the first 5ml dose it was 8.6 24hrs later
Now today it is 9.6 just 48 hrs later

My Ca is stable at 440

What could be the problem?

I did only dose 4ml after day 1

Its a 20g tank with sps and I think it raises too quick!

@Randy Holmes-Farley Would you stop dosing for now? Or just lower the amount of dosing to maybe 2ml?

 

[Calm Blue Ocean]

Hey guys

I started with AFR 2 days ago.. Now my Alk was 8…
After the first 5ml dose it was 8.6 24hrs later
Now today it is 9.6 just 48 hrs later

My Ca is stable at 440

What could be the problem?

I did only dose 4ml after day 1

Its a 20g tank with sps and I think it raises too quick!

@Randy Holmes-Farley Would you stop dosing for now? Or just lower the amount of dosing to maybe 2ml?

Sounds like your alk consumption is not high enough to support the suggested starting dose of 5ml. On my 50g I only dose 3-4ml daily otherwise my alk starts to rise. I had to mess around for about a week calculating the changes I was seeing to come up with a dose that finally kept everything steady.

 

[chipchipbro]

Sounds like your alk consumption is not high enough to support the suggested starting dose of 5ml. On my 50g I only dose 3-4ml daily otherwise my alk starts to rise. I had to mess around for about a week calculating the changes I was seeing to come up with a dose that finally kept everything steady.

That sounds about right..
Do you have alot of corals?

I was not sure if its the start with another product and my corals cannot take up the new „alk“. So I thought msybe its just temporary.

But then I would say I go down to 2ml a day.

What would you do? Maybe 1ml?

 

[Calm Blue Ocean]

That sounds about right..
Do you have alot of corals?

I was not sure if its the start with another product and my corals cannot take up the new „alk“. So I thought msybe its just temporary.

But then I would say I go down to 2ml a day.

What would you do? Maybe 1ml?

I have about 30 corals but not a lot of growth yet. I imagine once they get going things will change.

With my tank I initially did reduce to 1ml and tested every 48 hours since similar to your observations that seemed to the time frame with the most meaningful results and then adjusted as needed. Which reminds me, I need to test alk today!

 

[Shirak]

That sounds about right..
Do you have alot of corals?

I was not sure if its the start with another product and my corals cannot take up the new „alk“. So I thought msybe its just temporary.

But then I would say I go down to 2ml a day.

What would you do? Maybe 1ml?

I think it would depend how fast those SPS are growing and how large they are. How much were you dosing prior to the switch? There is a way to calculate a comparable replacement when going from another Alk source to AFR. Also note that it takes a day or two.. or 3 before the Alk from AFR is measurable with a test kit since it is bound up in formate which needs to be broken down by bacteria.

 

[Shirak]

Is 8 your target alk? I think if it were me I would stop dosing for a couple days and monitor Alk until it starts to drop then try just a couple ml AFR/day and continue monitoring Alk daily. It took me a week or so to really get the dosage close on my frag system. Even today I check Alk every other day or so because my Alk is dropping slowly while Ca and Mg are good. So for whatever reason my system needs a little Alk here and there. It's mostly LPS and lots of them and they are growing like weeds.

 

[chipchipbro]

I think it would depend how fast those SPS are growing and how large they are. How much were you dosing prior to the switch? There is a way to calculate a comparable replacement when going from another Alk source to AFR. Also note that it takes a day or two.. or 3 before the Alk from AFR is measurable with a test kit since it is bound up in formate which needs to be broken down by bacteria.

Well..
Before I was dosing ATI Nano Essentials.
I was dosing 6ml of the KH Solution #1 and also 4ml of the Ca Solution #2
Which equals to a daily consumption of approx. 0.3 dKH

So what would you do?

 

[chipchipbro]

Is 8 your target alk? I think if it were me I would stop dosing for a couple days and monitor Alk until it starts to drop then try just a couple ml AFR/day and continue monitoring Alk daily. It took me a week or so to really get the dosage close on my frag system. Even today I check Alk every other day or so because my Alk is dropping slowly while Ca and Mg are good. So for whatever reason my system needs a little Alk here and there. It's mostly LPS and lots of them and they are growing like weeds.

yes.. 7.5 to 8 is my target KH.

Well, I just stopped dosing right now.
Did my 4 doses of 1ml all to 0ml and lets see what happens..

Didnt expect the KH to rise that quick to be honest.

 

[chipchipbro]

maybe my Mag is a bit low.. and what I heard is that Mg plays a huge roll how Ca and Alk interact.. Is that a problem?
Mag is around 1220 only

 

[Shirak]

Well..
Before I was dosing ATI Nano Essentials.
I was dosing 6ml of the KH Solution #1 and also 4ml of the Ca Solution #2
Which equals to a daily consumption of approx. 0.3 dKH

So what would you do?

This is some information from an earlier reply by Randy to AFR dosing:
140 grams of 10)% calcium formate (assuming it is fully dry) contains 1.077 moles (43.1 g) of calcium and 2.15 moles of formate.

If you dissolve that in 1 L of water, the concentration is 43,000 ppm calcium and 6,000 dKH.

To raise a 100L tank by 1dKH, you would need 100/6000 = 0.0167 L or 16.7 ml

To raise a 100L tank by 0.1dKH, you would use 1.7 ml

To raise my 400L tank by 0.1dKH, I would add 4 x 1.7 = 6.7 ml


Your tank is 20g which is about 75L
According to the above 12ml of AFR will raise your tank 1dkh. So 4ml puts you at just about .33dkh alk added which is roughly what you were dosing prior. I am assuming you stopped dosing everything else when you started the AFR? So I am not sure why you are seeing such a rise in Alk after just two doses and a couple days.

What is the Alk of the salt you are using? Maybe a couple big water changes to drop the alk down and continue with AFR at 2ml/day and see how things work out over the span of a few days.

 

[Shirak]

maybe my Mag is a bit low.. and what I heard is that Mg plays a huge roll how Ca and Alk interact.. Is that a problem?
Mag is around 1220 only

I am not an expert in the interaction between Ca/Mg and Alkalinity. I keep my Mg 1400-1450ppm. My understanding is it helps keep Ca from forming calcium carbonate in the water and attaching to other calcium carbonate things like rocks/sand etc which would lower your levels of Ca and Alk. Isn't it also supposed to keep calcium carbonate surfaces from getting blocked by phosphorus?

 

[chipchipbro]

This is some information from an earlier reply by Randy to AFR dosing:
140 grams of 10)% calcium formate (assuming it is fully dry) contains 1.077 moles (43.1 g) of calcium and 2.15 moles of formate.

If you dissolve that in 1 L of water, the concentration is 43,000 ppm calcium and 6,000 dKH.

To raise a 100L tank by 1dKH, you would need 100/6000 = 0.0167 L or 16.7 ml

To raise a 100L tank by 0.1dKH, you would use 1.7 ml

To raise my 400L tank by 0.1dKH, I would add 4 x 1.7 = 6.7 ml


Your tank is 20g which is about 75L
According to the above 12ml of AFR will raise your tank 1dkh. So 4ml puts you at just about .33dkh alk added which is roughly what you were dosing prior. I am assuming you stopped dosing everything else when you started the AFR? So I am not sure why you are seeing such a rise in Alk after just two doses and a couple days.

What is the Alk of the salt you are using? Maybe a couple big water changes to drop the alk down and continue with AFR at 2ml/day and see how things work out over the span of a few days.

Well, thanks for your calculations and information. I dissolved 160g of the AFR powder in 900ml as stated on the manual. They say this will give you 1Litres of solution.

So maybe it is because I used 900ml and not 1 Litre?

Still, Id need more then 4ml to raise Alk by 1 dKH…

I will just stop dosing for 24hrs and then re-test the alk with salifer and hanna.

Yes, I stopped everything else.. hopefully I didnt pump my old dKH liquid into the tank by emptying the siphon hose when adding AFR….Because I remember that I did into a glass..

I am using Tropic Marin Pro Reef Salt..

If my Alk still is high today after 24hrs I will do a WC