Recommend a diy led

[jedimasterben]

Jedimasterben

I prefer the 0C or 0D bin which is a bit cooler at 7.5K I consider the 6-6.5K or 1C & 1D Bins perfect for a High Noon effect to add a slightly warmer more full spectrum. I also consider it very important to choose a bin well and yes the plain or most available XT-E R5 and just any Royal blue will not look optimal...I cannot say bad because I've seen some bad looking MH that needed a task force of Actinic VHO to look OK.

There are a lot of good recipes out there and most grow coral well. Others make corals pop more than others.

I know what works for me and prefer the Cree simply for these four reasons.

-Cost
-Looks
-Efficiency
-Reliability

One can look at spread sheets or pdf data sheets and say one is better than the other. I've been using LEDs for longer than most and have found what drives people back to T5 or MH is either a Cheap LED Fixture or a Flat Yellow Looking DIY Fixture.

For the record I'm not a fan of using neutrals as they are yellow looking. Your much better off using a couple warm without optics to get that 10K Full Spectrum look. I personally prefer a 17-20K Reef Spectrum look as do most of the vendors at fragswaps.

One can argue all day long on who is better looking Ginger or Mary Ann. Either way the only way to tell whats best is to see the recipe over different corals. Then measure the PAR and Current draw.

Blog Posts and Forum Posts simply do not blow my skirt up. Actual hands on field testing with a side by side comparison do.

Not blowing my skirt up Sound Clip and Quote - Hark
One of many classic quotes.

Bill

I have never had a single person that I have built or designed a fixture for tell me that it looked yellow. If you do not have a lot of power in blue spectra, even cool white appear that way, and that includes the 'bad' halides, too

Even with exotics (deep red, cyan, cool blue, which combine to white) decreasing the final color temperature of my current personal array, which is based on 5000K Luxeon Rebel ES, has no yellow and won't as long as my royal blue string is active, even at 10%. The blue spectrum is what eliminates the yellow, and is why neutral white arrays are based on a 1:2 ratio instead of a 1:1 ratio like most cool white arrays, which nets a similar 12-14K color temp (when keeping the total number of LEDs the same). Making it a 2:4:1 ratio of NW:RB:CB gets 14K minimum at 100%, but you get coloration that you would not get otherwise with a cool white-based array.

Binning is important, yes, but you cannot make a cool white LED perform as a neutral white, especially if picking a higher color temperature bin. Adding a couple of warm whites with no optics can help, but the light overall looks cold in comparison to one based on neutral, which to many mimics a good halide much more closely. I've tested a lot of LEDs and combinations and I cannot compare any to a neutral-based array.

 

[YodaHart]

I love my DIY fixture. It's been running for over 2 months and I've had great success thus far. I use all Cree LEDs except for 2 UV LEDs over a 40 breeder.

You can view my build thread here:
My 40B MakersLED Build with Arduino Controller - Carolina Fish Talk

 

[ReefLEDLights]

I have never had a single person that I have built or designed a fixture for tell me that it looked yellow. If you do not have a lot of power in blue spectra, even cool white appear that way, and that includes the 'bad' halides, too

Even with exotics (deep red, cyan, cool blue, which combine to white) decreasing the final color temperature of my current personal array, which is based on 5000K Luxeon Rebel ES, has no yellow and won't as long as my royal blue string is active, even at 10%. The blue spectrum is what eliminates the yellow, and is why neutral white arrays are based on a 1:2 ratio instead of a 1:1 ratio like most cool white arrays, which nets a similar 12-14K color temp (when keeping the total number of LEDs the same). Making it a 2:4:1 ratio of NW:RB:CB gets 14K minimum at 100%, but you get coloration that you would not get otherwise with a cool white-based array.

Binning is important, yes, but you cannot make a cool white LED perform as a neutral white, especially if picking a higher color temperature bin. Adding a couple of warm whites with no optics can help, but the light overall looks cold in comparison to one based on neutral, which to many mimics a good halide much more closely. I've tested a lot of LEDs and combinations and I cannot compare any to a neutral-based array.

As I said there are a lot of good recipes out there and I'm sure you have one of many. The best way to see which is best is to compare them side by side.

Even then one may say one looks looks better than the other and vise versa.

I dont understand what you mean when you say "The blue spectrum is what eliminates the yellow"...

I always thought in these recipes the blue spectrum overpowered the yellow so you do not notice it. Thats why I like bins with little or no yellow.

Bill

 

[jedimasterben]

If you take a cool white XT-E and a royal blue XT-E on one driver, and on another you have one neutral white and two royal blue, they will look roughly the same to our eyes, the neutral white side will not look yellow, but it will have more warmth, if that makes sense. I don't have any yellow that shows up in my array as long as my royal blue string is on, even at lower levels.

 

[ReefLEDLights]

If you take a cool white XT-E and a royal blue XT-E on one driver, and on another you have one neutral white and two royal blue, they will look roughly the same to our eyes, the neutral white side will not look yellow, but it will have more warmth, if that makes sense. I don't have any yellow that shows up in my array as long as my royal blue string is on, even at lower levels.

Here is a pic of two different Bins of Cool White. Each 12" Heatsink has 9 XT-E LEDs in three rows driven at 700mA. The warmer one we called regular. This caused a lot of debate on another forum about it being neutral but its actually bin 3A Cool White . One thing to also to point out is the cooler bins of the Cree White have a more pronounced 450nm spike which helps the look. I took this photo my self on my tank and did not alter the colour balance. the camera was a Nikon D200

As I said your recipe sounds good. I've also seen good results using other than Cree LEDs. And along with being to a few Rodeos and even a Donkey Show I've seen good looking tanks with a couple neutrals. Personally I prefer the 15-20K look over the 10-15K look. As in a chili cook off only the taster knows whats best with some preferring more spicy other more mild. I know what I like and I know several vendors who use our recipe to make their corals look their best at frag swaps. I also know that manufactures use a similar recipe to yours with good results.

Back when Wendy O'Williams was challenging morality with electrical tape, we reefers had little choice in lighting. One generation later we have almost an infinite choice due to LEDs and the the mix one chooses.

I think an interesting thesis would be to do a same water test under a strict control between both these LEDs to see which one grows coral better and to determine if one promotes nuisance algae more than the other. I already have my opinion on this but without documented study that can be duplicated...its only opinion.

Bill

 

[Trebor]

Bill are the heatsinks, from reefledlights, pretty reliable, no trouble with stripouts? They seem pretty heavy by description, how are people hanging them?

 

[ReefLEDLights]

Bill are the heatsinks, from reefledlights, pretty reliable, no trouble with stripouts? They seem pretty heavy by description, how are people hanging them?

The Heatsinks are from HeatsinkUSA. Other than that as a vendor I feel it inappropriate to to discuss or link to our products on this forum as its information related...

This is a great place to discuss Ideas and LED Recipes. Several other quality vendors have done the same.

As far as end users its also a great place to note product quality and vendor experience.

Here he a funny link to Green Acres http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIvjz2X-Kok

I sent a PM with specifics on the heatsink.

BTW...Yes I'm that old to have seen this before Gilligan's Island....

Bill

 

[Trebor]

Who prefers luxeon rebels over Cree and why? I noticed the rebels are more expensive, and the range is lower 447nm - 460 is this more desirable?


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[jedimasterben]

XT-E are more expensive than Rebel ES. I prefer the shorter wavelength, gives the tank a better look and slightly more actinic properties.

 

[Trebor]

XT-E are more expensive than Rebel ES. I prefer the shorter wavelength, gives the tank a better look and slightly more actinic properties.

Where do you purchase you led's from?

 

[jedimasterben]

Steve's LEDs, LEDGroupBuy, and Newark.

The more I see about them, the more I prefer 'evil clusters' based on the big Bridgelux chips surrounded by royals.

 

[ReefLEDLights]

Steve's LEDs, LEDGroupBuy, and Newark.

The more I see about them, the more I prefer 'evil clusters' based on the big Bridgelux chips surrounded by royals.

Could you toss us some specific links to their efficiency compared to the Cree XT-E.

Thanks
Bill

 

[jedimasterben]

Could you toss us some specific links to their efficiency compared to the Cree XT-E.

Thanks
Bill

Yessir, for the Rebels or Bridgelux?

 

[Trebor]

Both


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[jedimasterben]

Both


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Absolutely, I will get you my numbers when I get home.

 

[jedimasterben]

Neutral white Rebel ES output between 87-144lm at 350ma, 166-276lm at 700ma, and 216-365lm at 1,000ma. Datasheet here: http://www.philipslumileds.com/uploads/17/DS61-pdf

Royal blue Rebel ES output 418-627mW at 350ma, 760-1140mW at 700ma, 988-1,482mW at 1,000ma, and 1,406-2,109mW at 1,500ma. Datasheet here: http://www.philipslumileds.com/uploads/265/DS68-pdf

All numbers were normalized to 85 degree thermal pad temperature, 92% and 95% efficiency compared to temperatures of 25 degrees for white and royal blue, respectively, and the ranges are for the bottom binned chips to the top binned.

For the Luxeon M in royal blue, the only bin available for selection is bin C5G. 11.0-11.5v at 700ma, 4200-4600mW, and 450-455nm, all at 85 degrees. At 1000ma you're looking at 11.4-11.9v, 5760-6210mW. These things are beasts, especially when combined with a Ledil reflector. I'll have some pictures and a review soon. Datasheet here: http://www.philipslumileds.com/uploads/354/DS103-pdf

For the Bridgelux chips, the neutral white BXRA-40E950-B outputs 731lm at 350ma, 20.1v, 1,045lm at 500ma, 20.7v, 1,380lm at 700ma, 21.2v, and 1,892lm at 1000ma, 22.3v. They keep color consistency throughout their binning and their color is consistent across their entire output cone. Their forward voltage is very high, but the amount of light they output is immense. Combine that with the fact that they cost less than $6 each, and they handily succeed against the Cree MT-G2. Datasheet here: http://www.bridgelux.com/assets/files/DS24 Bridgelux ES Rectangle Array Data Sheet DS24 120312.pdf

 

[Trebor]

The rebels I found were on some kind of thermal star capable of running 20% cooler quote from luxeonstars. About triple in price


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[jedimasterben]

They are copper MCPCB instead of aluminum like normal. I've seen people run Cree XM-L at over six amps on copper stars without the LEDs overheating - the XM-L is only rated to go to three amps. :jaw:

 

[ReefLEDLights]

Yessir, for the Rebels or Bridgelux?

Thanks

Both

For the price the Bridgelux last year has fallen short on performance.

The latest factory fixtures (Name Withheld) using them that we tested is 40% less efficient against the Cree XT-E.

The Rebel ES is a contender against the Cree XT-E but supply of proper Bins Seriously Matter.

Also are there any domestic suppliers of the Rebel ES that will guarantee the Bin??? I dont trust Chinese Suppliers...

IMHO

LEDs can be dated quickly...Anyone seen a recent review on fixtures using 2 watt Epistar compared to the Current fixtures using Cree XT-E or Luxion ES???

jedimasterben Toss me a PM or email to share some research...Dana Riddle, Evil...and our our own research has profoundly influenced my recommendations

Evil back in the day had a very decent PAR38...Too bad it was made in china and the drivers failed well before the LEDs..Trust me I have experience with this.

Not his fault but he did get the good spectrum.

I'm actually a fan of his and followed his research. You can seriously call him the "GodFather Of Nano LED Lighting"...

Bill

 

[jedimasterben]

Thanks

Both

For the price the Bridgelux last year has fallen short on performance.

The latest factory fixtures (Name Withheld) using them that we tested is 40% less efficient against the Cree XT-E.

The Rebel ES is a contender against the Cree XT-E but supply of proper Bins Seriously Matter.

Also are there any domestic suppliers of the Rebel ES that will guarantee the Bin??? I dont trust Chinese Suppliers...

IMHO

LEDs can be dated quickly...Anyone seen a recent review on fixtures using 2 watt Epistar compared to the Current fixtures using Cree XT-E or Luxion ES???

jedimasterben Toss me a PM or email to share some research...Dana Riddle, Evil...and our our own research has profoundly influenced my recommendations

Evil back in the day had a very decent PAR38...Too bad it was made in china and the drivers failed well before the LEDs..Trust me I have experience with this.

Not his fault but he did get the good spectrum.

I'm actually a fan of his and followed his research. You can seriously call him the "GodFather Of Nano LED Lighting"...

Bill

The Chinese fixtures and cheap '3w Bridgelux' LEDs aren't actually Bridgelux. The only low-power chips that Bridgelux makes are royal blue, and even then, the ones in fixtures are almost guaranteed to be fake, as Bridgelux no longer makes them as far as I know, you have to search through their datasheet archive to pull up any info on them. Bridgelux's larger arrays, the BXRA are really second to none in phosphor quality and in they offer great efficiency, even within the higher power profiles.

With Rebel ES, the higher bins are readily available from Philips, and they're much cheaper than they used to be, but quality has not diminished at the same time.

For Epistar chips, they are kinda like Bridgelux - they don't produce white diodes in '3w' chips, and are constantly counterfeited. They're about 30-50% less efficient depending on drive current.

Nearing the end of Nanotuners, Evil started using Thomas Research drivers to power their custom arrays and had much better results (I think they are a clone of Inventronics, or a rebrand), but the PAR38s have to have everything specially made, and that leads to difficulty using brand-name parts.

Him, blasterman, and Dave Fason were really the driving force behind LEDs over reefs and figuring out what looked good and where to get drivers, the chips, etc. I've read through several of their threads on Nano-reef and there is an immense amount of information in them. Older, yes, but still applies today, just our numbers are higher now.