Recurring illness issues

[TheLoneSeaMonkey]

Hey everyone, I am apparently back to having fish illness and I am hoping someone can help me diagnose so I can figure out where to go from here.

I had 2 clownfish die on me from whatever this is that's happening to them so I left my tank fishless for 4 weeks. Now my two new clownfish are having the same issues that the last two had. Symptoms are as follows and in this order:

1. Stringy white poop
2. About a day later, swimming goes from nice undulating movements to twitchy and jerky
3. Some have had streaks down the side of them that looked a bit silver, but no white spots. Others have not shown any outward signs.
4. Gills seem to be distended, even though there is no heavy breathing initially
5. Fish start swimming into the current of the return pump
6. Fish started flashing and rubbing (about 3 days in to the process)
7. The first two fish started spitting food out at this point. The fish I have now are still eating voraciously.
8. The first two fish started having heavy breathing at this point
9. fish started swimming at top of tank
10. The first 2 fish died. One died in a few days and the other took 2 weeks but seemed to die more from not eating than from any illness. The second one stopped even trying to eat when the prazi-pro started and then never started eating again.

So things I have tried so far and some background on the fish -

With the first 2 fish, I treated with prazi-pro and it did nothing. With the second set of fish, one of them I had in QT for a month and treated with Ruby Reef Rally preventatively and he was healthy and happy. The other one came pre-quarantined. The first one has been in my DT for 3 and a half weeks and the second one has been in for a week and a half. I have been treating my DT with Ruby Reef Rally (I have a watchman Goby/pistol shrimp combo that have been in the tank for 2.5 weeks and I would not be able to get them out without tearing the whole tank apart so I am opting to try to treat the whole thing). The clown I have had the longest got sick first and started with the same symptoms as the last ones, about 3 weeks in to being in the tank. He got some streaks of almost silver down his body. Since day 3 of the RRR those have been gone, but he is still progressing with symptoms of flashing and twitching and swimming into the current. The second clown started with symptoms yesterday (day 2 of the RRR) and has progressed to the twitching today, so I don't think it's helping, or maybe not helping much.

My thought is that it might be something like hexamita and I have bought some Metroplex and seachem focus to feed to the fish since they are still eating. My question is, how long do I need to wait before starting the metroplex after the RRR is done and is this even the right course of action at this point? The watchman goby seems totally normal and is also eating, I just cannot figure out what is going on here as it seems to have symptoms of more than one issue. I have a picture of the streak down the current clownfish, but it is on my phone so I will attach it after this.

 

[MnFish1]

Hey everyone, I am apparently back to having fish illness and I am hoping someone can help me diagnose so I can figure out where to go from here.

I had 2 clownfish die on me from whatever this is that's happening to them so I left my tank fishless for 4 weeks. Now my two new clownfish are having the same issues that the last two had. Symptoms are as follows and in this order:

1. Stringy white poop
2. About a day later, swimming goes from nice undulating movements to twitchy and jerky
3. Some have had streaks down the side of them that looked a bit silver, but no white spots. Others have not shown any outward signs.
4. Gills seem to be distended, even though there is no heavy breathing initially
5. Fish start swimming into the current of the return pump
6. Fish started flashing and rubbing (about 3 days in to the process)
7. The first two fish started spitting food out at this point. The fish I have now are still eating voraciously.
8. The first two fish started having heavy breathing at this point
9. fish started swimming at top of tank
10. The first 2 fish died. One died in a few days and the other took 2 weeks but seemed to die more from not eating than from any illness. The second one stopped even trying to eat when the prazi-pro started and then never started eating again.

So things I have tried so far and some background on the fish -

With the first 2 fish, I treated with prazi-pro and it did nothing. With the second set of fish, one of them I had in QT for a month and treated with Ruby Reef Rally preventatively and he was healthy and happy. The other one came pre-quarantined. The first one has been in my DT for 3 and a half weeks and the second one has been in for a week and a half. I have been treating my DT with Ruby Reef Rally (I have a watchman Goby/pistol shrimp combo that have been in the tank for 2.5 weeks and I would not be able to get them out without tearing the whole tank apart so I am opting to try to treat the whole thing). The clown I have had the longest got sick first and started with the same symptoms as the last ones, about 3 weeks in to being in the tank. He got some streaks of almost silver down his body. Since day 3 of the RRR those have been gone, but he is still progressing with symptoms of flashing and twitching and swimming into the current. The second clown started with symptoms yesterday (day 2 of the RRR) and has progressed to the twitching today, so I don't think it's helping, or maybe not helping much.

My thought is that it might be something like hexamita and I have bought some Metroplex and seachem focus to feed to the fish since they are still eating. My question is, how long do I need to wait before starting the metroplex after the RRR is done and is this even the right course of action at this point? The watchman goby seems totally normal and is also eating, I just cannot figure out what is going on here as it seems to have symptoms of more than one issue. I have a picture of the streak down the current clownfish, but it is on my phone so I will attach it after this.

If you have a specific question as to the compatibility of products - I might call the companies technical support.

As to the rest - it sounds like your 'fallow period' of 30 days was not long enough. AND - if you left a fish in the tank during that time, any velvet, cryptocaryon, etc etc - can still infect any new fish. I would suggest (as difficult as it is - removing your fish to a hospital tank - and treating there - while leaving your tank fallow for at LEAST 45 days. Though possible in saltwater fish - Heximita is uncommon as compared to fresh-water

 

[TheLoneSeaMonkey]

Here is the picture with the streak down its side.

 

[TheLoneSeaMonkey]

here is one from today with better light and I can now see some tiny pinprick holes in his head that weren't there before. The other one appears to have them too but is less willing to be photographed.

 

[TheLoneSeaMonkey]

If you have a specific question as to the compatibility of products - I might call the companies technical support.

As to the rest - it sounds like your 'fallow period' of 30 days was not long enough. AND - if you left a fish in the tank during that time, any velvet, cryptocaryon, etc etc - can still infect any new fish. I would suggest (as difficult as it is - removing your fish to a hospital tank - and treating there - while leaving your tank fallow for at LEAST 45 days. Though possible in saltwater fish - Heximita is uncommon as compared to fresh-water

There were no fish in the tank for the 4 weeks. I am really just hoping that can help me narrow down what the issue might actually be here. Is there anything other than hexamita that could be infecting a tank after 28 days fishless that might cause those tiny holes in a fish's head as well as the other symptoms they have had?

 

[vetteguy53081]

here is one from today with better light and I can now see some tiny pinprick holes in his head that weren't there before. The other one appears to have them too but is less willing to be photographed.

Please repost pic under white lighting to make it clearer what the fish may have. I think I see symptom but rarely recommend on a hunch

 

[TheLoneSeaMonkey]

Please repost pic under white lighting to make it clearer what the fish may have. I think I see symptom but rarely recommend on a hunch

That is 100% white light, I think the Rally makes everything a bit green. Here is a video, I don't know if that will help at all.


The quality isn't great and it probably won't give you anything better. I will see if I can get out my real camera and macro lens to take better pictures

 

[vetteguy53081]

That is 100% white light, I think the Rally makes everything a bit green. Here is a video, I don't know if that will help at all.


The quality isn't great and it probably won't give you anything better. I will see if I can get out my real camera and macro lens to take better pictures

I wish everyone posted this clear under good lighting. As suspected, you have a light haze on the body and little pimple like dots along its back suggesting early stage brook often affecting wild caught clowns. The most significant sign is the amount of slime on its body. The thick mucus on its body is a second sign which is noticeable on the fish. This mucus generally starts at the facial area as well as gills and spreads across the body producing lesions as it progresses often confused with ich and can turn into secondary bacteria. Other symptoms will be lethargic behavior, refusing to eat and heavy breathing from the mucus. Skin lesions can appear and it is not uncommon for signs of secondary bacterial infections.
Typical treatment is a formalin solution is mixed with in a separate container with either fresh or saltwater. Start with a quick dip in the formalin at a higher concentration then performing treatment in a prolonged bath of formalin base at a lower concentration in a quarantine tank. The longer the fish are exposed to the formalin treatment the more effective it will be at eliminating this issue.
If a formalin solution is not available for immediate use, temporary relief can be achieved by giving the fish a FW bath or dip in water same temperature as display tank. Even though this treatment will not cure the disease, it can help to remove some of the parasites, as well as reduce the amount of mucus in the gills to assist with respiration problems.
Treatment is best done in a QT tank using either quick cure (more effective) or Ruby Rally Pro. Ruby takes a little longer and initial treatment generally takes 2-3 days to really start going to work. Allow rally to go to work and you should see improvement

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Hey everyone, I am apparently back to having fish illness and I am hoping someone can help me diagnose so I can figure out where to go from here.

I had 2 clownfish die on me from whatever this is that's happening to them so I left my tank fishless for 4 weeks. Now my two new clownfish are having the same issues that the last two had. Symptoms are as follows and in this order:

1. Stringy white poop
2. About a day later, swimming goes from nice undulating movements to twitchy and jerky
3. Some have had streaks down the side of them that looked a bit silver, but no white spots. Others have not shown any outward signs.
4. Gills seem to be distended, even though there is no heavy breathing initially
5. Fish start swimming into the current of the return pump
6. Fish started flashing and rubbing (about 3 days in to the process)
7. The first two fish started spitting food out at this point. The fish I have now are still eating voraciously.
8. The first two fish started having heavy breathing at this point
9. fish started swimming at top of tank
10. The first 2 fish died. One died in a few days and the other took 2 weeks but seemed to die more from not eating than from any illness. The second one stopped even trying to eat when the prazi-pro started and then never started eating again.

So things I have tried so far and some background on the fish -

With the first 2 fish, I treated with prazi-pro and it did nothing. With the second set of fish, one of them I had in QT for a month and treated with Ruby Reef Rally preventatively and he was healthy and happy. The other one came pre-quarantined. The first one has been in my DT for 3 and a half weeks and the second one has been in for a week and a half. I have been treating my DT with Ruby Reef Rally (I have a watchman Goby/pistol shrimp combo that have been in the tank for 2.5 weeks and I would not be able to get them out without tearing the whole tank apart so I am opting to try to treat the whole thing). The clown I have had the longest got sick first and started with the same symptoms as the last ones, about 3 weeks in to being in the tank. He got some streaks of almost silver down his body. Since day 3 of the RRR those have been gone, but he is still progressing with symptoms of flashing and twitching and swimming into the current. The second clown started with symptoms yesterday (day 2 of the RRR) and has progressed to the twitching today, so I don't think it's helping, or maybe not helping much.

My thought is that it might be something like hexamita and I have bought some Metroplex and seachem focus to feed to the fish since they are still eating. My question is, how long do I need to wait before starting the metroplex after the RRR is done and is this even the right course of action at this point? The watchman goby seems totally normal and is also eating, I just cannot figure out what is going on here as it seems to have symptoms of more than one issue. I have a picture of the streak down the current clownfish, but it is on my phone so I will attach it after this.

The 30 day fallow period isn't long enough, I think I had mentioned 60+ days in the other thread. I can't follow the numbered timeline above - does this include the issue that you had with the clowns this summer? What point are the new fish at?

Metronidazole in the food won't work unless the fish is eating well and you calculate the dose correctly. Just adding some Metro to some Focus is too imprecise - the metro dose needs to be at 0.5% by weight in the food. Metro in the water would be an easier option (but not as effective for internal infections).

Jay

 

[TheLoneSeaMonkey]

The 30 day fallow period isn't long enough, I think I had mentioned 60+ days in the other thread. I can't follow the numbered timeline above - does this include the issue that you had with the clowns this summer? What point are the new fish at?

Metronidazole in the food won't work unless the fish is eating well and you calculate the dose correctly. Just adding some Metro to some Focus is too imprecise - the metro dose needs to be at 0.5% by weight in the food. Metro in the water would be an easier option (but not as effective for internal infections).

Jay

yes, I didn't wait the 60 days, I had someone local convince me it would be fine which I now recognize was a mistake.

I left the tank empty for 4 weeks after the first 2 clownfish died - the first one of those died about a week after I got it, and the second one had many of the same symptoms but stopped eating and died a couple weeks later. I got the one that is sick now at the same time those fish died and had him in QT the whole time. He came from the same fish store as the other 2, and I preventatively treated him for 3 days with the Ruby Reef Rally. After 4 weeks, I put him back in the tank and that was 3.5 weeks ago. He has been fine that whole time and just started acting weird 5 days ago now. I apparently added the Watchman Goby at the same time, now that I am looking at my photos for time frames. He was already QT'd. The second clown I added 2.5 weeks ago and he was also QT'd. The goby is still acting totally fine, and everyone is eating really well. The second clown has the stringy white poop and has had a little bit of twitching today, but otherwise has been fine. The black one started showing symptoms first and I started treating the DT with Ruby Reef Rally as soon as I saw anything going on and the black fish does look like it is doing better externally, but it still acting really weird, twitching and darting, definitely not lethargic and I forgot to mention that it is also clamping it's lower fins like the first 2 did. But I didn't think that Brook could take 2 weeks to kill a fish after infection, which is why I didn't think it was that.

Right now I guess my options are keep treating in the DT or rip the whole thing apart to get the watchman out, and I don't know how well he or his shrimp will take being separated, and treat the fish in my QT tank. I just don't know which one to do at this point.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

yes, I didn't wait the 60 days, I had someone local convince me it would be fine which I now recognize was a mistake.

I left the tank empty for 4 weeks after the first 2 clownfish died - the first one of those died about a week after I got it, and the second one had many of the same symptoms but stopped eating and died a couple weeks later. I got the one that is sick now at the same time those fish died and had him in QT the whole time. He came from the same fish store as the other 2, and I preventatively treated him for 3 days with the Ruby Reef Rally. After 4 weeks, I put him back in the tank and that was 3.5 weeks ago. He has been fine that whole time and just started acting weird 5 days ago now. I apparently added the Watchman Goby at the same time, now that I am looking at my photos for time frames. He was already QT'd. The second clown I added 2.5 weeks ago and he was also QT'd. The goby is still acting totally fine, and everyone is eating really well. The second clown has the stringy white poop and has had a little bit of twitching today, but otherwise has been fine. The black one started showing symptoms first and I started treating the DT with Ruby Reef Rally as soon as I saw anything going on and the black fish does look like it is doing better externally, but it still acting really weird, twitching and darting, definitely not lethargic and I forgot to mention that it is also clamping it's lower fins like the first 2 did. But I didn't think that Brook could take 2 weeks to kill a fish after infection, which is why I didn't think it was that.

Right now I guess my options are keep treating in the DT or rip the whole thing apart to get the watchman out, and I don't know how well he or his shrimp will take being separated, and treat the fish in my QT tank. I just don't know which one to do at this point.

Well, Ruby Reef would cause the fewest adverse effects, but also isn’t always an effective cure. Metro in the water has been used by some folks in their DT, but I’ve not done that myself. Chloroquine is a great option, but can’t be used with invertebrates.
Jay

 

[TheLoneSeaMonkey]

I thought I would update this post as it looks like the fish are mostly recovered. I treated this with Ruby Reef Rally Pro for 4 days and the external stuff on the fish that had it mostly disappeared in that time, but he was getting worse as far as twitching, flashing, etc. I started feeding metroplex with focus on Monday night and the fish started getting significantly better, and the small holes in their heads started to close up by Wednesday. Today they are almost gone. I had emailed Ruby Reef and they said it was safe to feed MetroPlex and Focus while the Rally was in the tank, but also advised that Kick-Ich worked to treat Hexamita in the tank if that was the issue, so I started that yesterday too. Both fish are doing better, the jerky swimming, flashing and darting are gone at this point, white poops are gone, and everyone is still in the DT. Yesterday I started adding some Selcon to their food too, just to try to improve nutrition by any little bit I can. My goby never showed any issues. It looks like things are getting back to normal and happy in there. I kind of threw the kitchen sink at it, but I think whatever the issue was, it seems to have been helped most by the MetroPlex.

As kind of an aside, I haven't been able to run any carbon in there for over a week now and it was getting a bit cloudy so I started adding a little PNS ProBio every night and not only has that gotten the tank nice and clear, it also cleared up the gha issue I was having in just a couple days.