Red Sea 4 part dosing

[kasen1]

Hello all! I’m trying to get my tank parameters in line so that I can start using the 4part Red Sea supplements but having trouble. Current Alk is 8.5 and calcium is 577. If I did a water change with Seachem salt, to get Calcium down, how would I determine how much of one to do and how much part B should I dose the water with so that my KH doesn’t drop with the change? I’ve been dosing 40ml a day of part B and I can’t even get it to 9. Tank is a Redsea 425 with a sump so about 100G with the rock and sand. What am I doing wrong??

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Hello all! I’m trying to get my tank parameters in line so that I can start using the 4part Red Sea supplements but having trouble. Current Alk is 8.5 and calcium is 577. If I did a water change with Seachem salt, to get Calcium down, how would I determine how much of one to do and how much part B should I dose the water with so that my KH doesn’t drop with the change? I’ve been dosing 40ml a day of part B and I can’t even get it to 9. Tank is a Redsea 425 with a sump so about 100G with the rock and sand. What am I doing wrong??

I wouldn’t bother doing water changes to bring calcium down. If you are certain it is high and not test error, then I just would not use the calcium part until it comes down.

 

[kasen1]

It’s definitely that high. I have 2 Hannah checkers that I use. It was happily around 450 and then shot up to 600. I haven’t been able to get it to budge for a few weeks now. The 4 part dosing is based on calcium levels though. It’s not an option to not dose calcium if using it.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

It’s definitely that high. I have 2 Hannah checkers that I use. It was happily around 450 and then shot up to 600. I haven’t been able to get it to budge for a few weeks now. The 4 part dosing is based on calcium levels though. It’s not an option to not dose calcium if using it.

Of course it is an option, just say no to using that part lol. It’s not hard to figure out what to dose of the other parts. Dose enough of the alk part to maintain the alk you want (you aren’t dosing enough now), and we can advise on any other parts if you want.

Did you do something to make it shoot up? Calcium does not rise on its own. Try the kit on some of the new salt water.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

The Red Sea recipe is:

1 part calcium (part 1)
2 parts alk (part 2)
0.5 parts part 3
0.5 parts part 4

So don’t use part 1, and if it takes 50 mL per day of the alk part to maintain your target alk, then dose 12.5 mL of part 3 and 12.5 mL of part 4 per day.

Complete Reef Care 4-part program - Red Sea

Discover the new and simplified 4-part program for optimal coral growth and coloration in reef systems without refugium.

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[gbroadbridge]

It’s definitely that high. I have 2 Hannah checkers that I use. It was happily around 450 and then shot up to 600. I haven’t been able to get it to budge for a few weeks now. The 4 part dosing is based on calcium levels though. It’s not an option to not dose calcium if using it.

If you're using Hanna Calcium checkers make certain you are using lab grade DI water to make up the blank sample.

I would double check the Hanna against a Salifert Kit before making any dosing adjustments.

 

[kasen1]

I’ve been dosing the other parts by themselves. I meant you need to use that system based on calcium uptake. I’m excited to set it and let the auto dose do its thing.
I’m trying to raise alk around a point a day. I’ve been able to get it to 9 by end of day but by morning it’s at 7.4ish. I don’t know why calcium is so high. The salt I’ve been using is coral pro redsea and I have tested it and it was fine.

If you're using Hanna Calcium checkers make certain you are using lab grade DI water to make up the blank sample.

I would double check the Hanna against a Salifert Kit before making any dosing adjustments.

I use the Hannah DI water.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

If you do not know why calcium is so high, then finding out seems appropriate to be sure it is not test error or does not happen again.

 

[kasen1]

If you do not know why calcium is so high, then finding out seems appropriate to be sure it is not test error or does not happen again.

Sure. Any ideas? Tanks been up for a year. Sps, lps, fish, anemones, leathers, sponges. Everything is pretty happy expected alveopora and mushroom. Perhaps the Reef dose over dosed?
Ph 8.5
Salinity 1.026
Nitrate.7
Nitrite .005
Ammonia.06
Phosphorus .03
Calcium 577
Magnesium 1410
Temp 77.6

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Sure. Any ideas? Tanks been up for a year. Sps, lps, fish, anemones, leathers, sponges. Everything is pretty happy expected alveopora and mushroom. Perhaps the Reef dose over dosed?
Ph 8.5
Salinity 1.026
Nitrate.7
Nitrite .005
Ammonia.06
Phosphorus .03
Calcium 577
Magnesium 1410
Temp 77.6

Is the calcium container appropriately low, compared to other parts? Or is that not what you were using?

 

[kasen1]

Is the calcium container appropriately low, compared to other parts? Or is that not what you were using?

What do you mean? Like noticeably lower volume left compared to others? No.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

What do you mean? Like noticeably lower volume left compared to others? No.

They are designed to finish up the containers at the same time. Too much calcium dosing would have the calcium one lower as a fraction liquid remaining.

If not dosed too much, either test error or a bad batch of salt are likely culprits, unless you use tap water or otherwise added calcium without knowing.

 

[kasen1]

They are designed to finish up the containers at the same time. Too much calcium dosing would have the calcium one lower as a fraction liquid remaining.

If not dosed too much, either test error or a bad batch of salt are likely culprits, unless you use tap water or otherwise added calcium without knowing.

I was dosing with KH, Calcium and magnesium. Not the 4 part system. I want to start using the 4 part but want to get the water right first.
I’ve tested calcium twice a day for the last 10 days. I wish it were a test error but it’s not. I make my own RO and use Red Sea Coral Pro salt. I’ve tested new salt water and that’s not the problem.

 

[FernBluffReef]

If you're using Hanna Calcium checkers make certain you are using lab grade DI water to make up the blank sample.

I would double check the Hanna against a Salifert Kit before making any dosing adjustments.

Second this. Hanna is very sensitive. If I test using my RO/DI water as blank. Then the test will error out exceeding 600. I’ll go even further and say make sure you rinse your vials in vapor distilled. Do not rinse in tap water or RO/DI unless you have already proven you water is CA free.

Now that I only use lab grade water for the blank and rinse my vials in distilled… I find Hanna CA to be very reliable. Results are inline with Red Sea CA and ICP. Before then Hanna was useless.

Without a reference to prove your test methods (other than a second Hanna) I would not assume the results are right. Been there…

 

[kasen1]

Second this. Hanna is very sensitive. If I test using my RO/DI water as blank. Then the test will error out exceeding 600. I’ll go even further and say make sure you rinse your vials in vapor distilled. Do not rinse in tap water or RO/DI unless you have already proven you water is CA free.

Now that I only use lab grade water for the blank and rinse my vials in distilled… I find Hanna CA to be very reliable. Results are inline with Red Sea CA and ICP. Before then Hanna was useless.

Without a reference to prove your test methods (other than a second Hanna) I would not assume the results are right. Been there…

That’s a good point. I’ve been rinsing the vials with tap but then rinsing with tank water to rinse off the tap water. I’ll try to rinse with distilled and see. I’ve tested new salt water though with the same method and it tests at 450. I would think that proves it’s not a testing error. My biggest question though is why is KH going down so much over night. I dose 15ml in the morning, 15 at 4 and 15 at 8. Test again at 10pm and I’m around 9. By morning it’s back down into the 7. range. Why would it drop so much overnight? And why no matter how many water changes does calcium stay so high? Could the two be related?

 

[FernBluffReef]

That’s a good point. I’ve been rinsing the vials with tap but then rinsing with tank water to rinse off the tap water. I’ll try to rinse with distilled and see. I’ve tested new salt water though with the same method and it tests at 450. I would think that proves it’s not a testing error. My biggest question though is why is KH going down so much over night. I dose 15ml in the morning, 15 at 4 and 15 at 8. Test again at 10pm and I’m around 9. By morning it’s back down into the 7. range. Why would it drop so much overnight? And why no matter how many water changes does calcium stay so high? Could the two be related?

45ML of foundation B a day in RS425. Wow. You must have a lot of thriving corals. Have a pic (must be a nice tank)

My RS525, a bit larger than yours, is dosing 16ML of foundation B using the new 4 part. It’s still a relatively new tank - 9 months and has a lot of small corals.

It’s taken me a while to get it tweaked so ALK would remain stable while dosing. I was up at 20ML a day before ALK finally started to climb above 7.8-7.9. My issue was I knew how much ALk I was consuming before starting the 4 part but when switching the CA didn’t move the way I expected (required more of Part A - CA/Mag then I calculated, which was compounded with trying the RS calculator for the 4 part which is written poorly IMO. As such my ALK went down and my MG crashed as I was only supplementing extra ALK to make up the difference and then my AlK would not rise. I had to dose a ton of Mag and then increase the overall dosing to fix my ALK and MG numbers without making CA sky high

It is my understanding there are relations between ALk, CA and MG and if not in balance you can have a hard time moving one or the other. Randy would have to speak in detail but I do understand the target ratio between CA and MG is like 1:3 - my CA right now is about 430 and the MG is in the low 1300s. If way out of whack, I understand it can make other values harder to move. And of course salinity plays an oversized factor.

 

[One Reefing Boi]

45ML of foundation B a day in RS425. Wow. You must have a lot of thriving corals. Have a pic (must be a nice tank)

My RS525, a bit larger than yours, is dosing 16ML of foundation B using the new 4 part. It’s still a relatively new tank - 9 months and has a lot of small corals.

It’s taken me a while to get it tweaked so ALK would remain stable while dosing. I was up at 20ML a day before ALK finally started to climb above 7.8-7.9. My issue was I knew how much ALk I was consuming before starting the 4 part but when switching the CA didn’t move the way I expected which was compounded with trying the RS calculator for the 4 part which is written poorly IMO

It is my understanding there are relations between ALk, CA and MG and if not in balance you can have a hard time moving one or the other. Randy would have to speak in detail but I do understand the target ratio between CA and MG is like 1:3 - my CA right now is about 430 and the MG is in the low 1300s. If way out of whack, I understand it can make other values harder to move. And of course salinity plays an oversized factor.

Tbh I just base mine off Alk consumption, so far it’s been going for about 2 months, and things are stable. So I need about 9ml of Alk, so then I told it to only dose 4.5 of Calcium. The rest fall into place

 

[FernBluffReef]

Tbh I just base mine off Alk consumption, so far it’s been going for about 2 months, and things are stable. So I need about 9ml of Alk, so then I told it to only dose 4.5 of Calcium. The rest fall into place

Yea. I wish I would have followed my gut and continued with the volume of ALK I was using. When first converting to the new 4 part I did not realize part 2 remained 100% identical to Foundation B so I tried to convert to to the CA calculation and it didn’t work :-(. I finally have mine tuned in but had to make up a ton of MG and the remainder of the ALK I was under supplementing. Other then the bumpy start I’m quite happy with the new 4 part

 

[One Reefing Boi]

Yea. I wish I would have followed my gut and continued with the volume of ALK I was using. When first converting to the new 4 part I did not realize part 2 remained 100% identical to Foundation B so I tried to convert to to the CA calculation and it didn’t work :-(. I finally have mine tuned in but had to make up a ton of MG and the remainder of the ALK I was under supplementing. Other then the bumpy start I’m quite happy with the new 4 part

Glad to hear it got resolved! I’ve been happy with the new 4 part as well. Time will tell

 

[kasen1]

45ML of foundation B a day in RS425. Wow. You must have a lot of thriving corals. Have a pic (must be a nice tank)

My RS525, a bit larger than yours, is dosing 16ML of foundation B using the new 4 part. It’s still a relatively new tank - 9 months and has a lot of small corals.

It’s taken me a while to get it tweaked so ALK would remain stable while dosing. I was up at 20ML a day before ALK finally started to climb above 7.8-7.9. My issue was I knew how much ALk I was consuming before starting the 4 part but when switching the CA didn’t move the way I expected (required more of Part A - CA/Mag then I calculated, which was compounded with trying the RS calculator for the 4 part which is written poorly IMO. As such my ALK went down and my MG crashed as I was only supplementing extra ALK to make up the difference and then my AlK would not rise. I had to dose a ton of Mag and then increase the overall dosing to fix my ALK and MG numbers without making CA sky high

It is my understanding there are relations between ALk, CA and MG and if not in balance you can have a hard time moving one or the other. Randy would have to speak in detail but I do understand the target ratio between CA and MG is like 1:3 - my CA right now is about 430 and the MG is in the low 1300s. If way out of whack, I understand it can make other values harder to move. And of course salinity plays an oversized factor.

Absolutely. That last paragraph is what I’m trying to figure out. It seems very odd to me that CA is so high and I’m fighting to get Alk up. I have a lot of small corals. I don’t think I should be needing to dose this much. Or I could just be off in what I think it takes. I just tested Calcium and it’s at 600. I haven’t dosed any calcium in over a week and yet it’s higher today than yesterday. I haven’t changed the water in a week and only adding foundation B.