Red Sea recipes are awesome. But do we need it?

[anddak]

So...after some quite a lot of research about supplements and reef chemistry, I admit I still know almost nothing, this is exactly why the Red Sea products are so appealing.

Apart from the awesome website and intuitive UX it really seems that the company is trying to simplify reef keeping (sorry I can't help but appreciate quality digital presence as I am a software engineer), let me explain what I mean:

In this hobby, most of the truths (and myths) are hard to find, guidance and descriptions on labelling are an absolute nightmare and everything is generally dated (this is why I appreciate R2R as it gives back a lot, just trying to fill the gap). Red Sea on the other hand, apart from the quality product guidance they provide, also came up with this:

Reef Care Recipes - Red Sea

Red Sea's recipes for easy & successful Reef-Keeping, Our Reef Care Recipes offer easy-to-understand and simple-to-implement instructions for reef maintenance, tailored to each type of aquarium.

www.redseafish.com

So it's that simple, pop in some parameters unique to your tank and you'll get a fully customised dosing program that fits your tank. AWESOME!

But it's that simple?

The wizard generated the following to me if I want to achieve Exceptional growth rate and good coloration.

So here goes, as much as I like their intuitive platform, and good marketing, etc.:

- 12dkH Alkalinity? Wow. I have a new tank and I am dosing the maximum daily allowed (1.4dkh) yet I can't increase my alkalinity due to the dailiy decrease...it's a stable 8-9....and I am using Coral Pro salt. Ah and since I am dosing dkH my Calcium and Magnesium is messed up, it was stable before by just performing a weekly 10% change.

- NOPOX? I desperately need something as my tank looks terrible, I've got hair algae, brown algae and the whole alphabet...but is it not suicide to dose Nopox to a fluval evo with a water volume of just 42L? If so, why would Red Sea not build this small conditional into their algorithm?

- Coral Nutrition?? Trace Elements ?? I mean if their salt and foundation ABC is so good, then why this? I am very confident there were absolutely stunning tanks 40 years ago as well, I am also sure there weren't bottled "trace elements" and "coral nutritions".

I know this hobby is expensive, but to spend over a £1000 for my Fluval Evo jut to get up and running with minimal livestock sounds a bit much, (truth is I've counted in the RODI units, buckets and everything really).... so is it really justified to pay for kH instead of using baking soda for example? or just to pay trace elements and stuff in general.

Oh yeah and this is not an anti-Red Sea post, quite the contrary, I really admire the company's efforts, however, I'd really love to hear the opinion of some experienced (and not so experienced) reefers about the above questions.

 

[Fish rookie 07]

Personally, I would not settle for these tanks as after a year if you're looking to experiment you begin to find out that a lot of their stuff is marketing itself through its big name, everybody will say different things and have different opinions but I only bought a couple essentials such as a test kit but other then that everything was bought for a cheaper price. One of my smaller tanks is a year in now and haven't killed a fish and spent half the price. What I suggest for your algae issue is to feed less, physically take out or just detach the larger algae spots and begin doing water changes on a fixed schedule. But algae grows where there is extra nutrients, I used to have hair algae everywhere and began feeding jut enough for the fish (once every three days) and very quickly the algae disappeared. Good luck on how ever you approach this as I've gone through what your going through and there is an end!

 

[andrewey]

This won't be directed at Red Sea, but more about products in general. I like to think of aquarium supplements in 4 categories.

Some companies, sell "premium" products. Some companies sell products that are not "premium", per se, simply a product that balances the cost of the raw materials with overhead costs and allows the company to make a product.

Some companies sell products where the claims are either exaggerated, questionable/fake, or downright dangerous to make. Some companies sell products where the claims of the product are reasonable and grounded.

All permutations are available for purchase. Unfortunately, as a new reefer (or old alike), it's hard to quickly deduce what category a particular product fits into. How much is hogwash- what is optional and what is necessary? This is no different than going to an Autozone and looking at their products. "Will that product really improve my mpg?" "Is this transmission fluid really worth the extra cost?" "Will I regret using the cheaper oil filter?"

Now back to Red Sea. They are simply making a reccomendation based on a "system" that utilizes many of their products. Some of the suggestions they have made are not ones I would necessary suggest as blanket suggetions to all reefers- however, that doesn't mean they are wrong. Just different ways of running a tank. Some spend the money on their products and achieve success. Others do not. Others find success using products that may cost more or less than their products or use different products altogether (or none at all)! If a company sold or believed in zeovit, they would probably make recommendations to use zeovit products. Companies that advocate the berlin or balling method make similar suggestions for their products.

Please understand, I'm not trying to poo poo Red Sea or make any claims about the use of their calculator. Ultimately, if one turns to a company to supply them with information or recommendations, they may not be getting an independent answer to many of the questions you raised

 

[anddak]

Personally, I would not settle for these tanks as after a year if you're looking to experiment you begin to find out that a lot of their stuff is marketing itself through its big name, everybody will say different things and have different opinions but I only bought a couple essentials such as a test kit but other then that everything was bought for a cheaper price. One of my smaller tanks is a year in now and haven't killed a fish and spent half the price. What I suggest for your algae issue is to feed less, physically take out or just detach the larger algae spots and begin doing water changes on a fixed schedule. But algae grows where there is extra nutrients, I used to have hair algae everywhere and began feeding jut enough for the fish (once every three days) and very quickly the algae disappeared. Good luck on how ever you approach this as I've gone through what your going through and there is an end!

Thank you @Fish rookie 07

Wow, feeding once in 3 days? I am currently feeding twice every day, however I feed just as much as the fish can eat. If I skip a morning meal, they're absolutely desperate (and cute) to get their food on the evening. Won't I starve them with that little feeding? BTW, tomorrow is water change day and I will try and get rid of the big lumps "manually". Nitrate 8-10 and Phopshphate 0.03 is what I am having by the end of the week, before the regular water change, I was really expecting that is not high nutrients for algae to thrive this much, but I guess I am wrong?

This tank is just to experience the hobby and learn stuff, I am planning to upgrade to a 40g in a year, but I really need to put a cap on my spending, cause currently, I am buying every cr*p.

 

[anddak]

This won't be directed at Red Sea, but more about products in general. I like to think of aquarium supplements in 4 categories.

Some companies, sell "premium" products. Some companies sell products that are not "premium", per se, simply a product that balances the cost of the raw materials with overhead costs and allows the company to make a product.

Some companies sell products where the claims are either exaggerated, questionable/fake, or downright dangerous to make. Some companies sell products where the claims of the product are reasonable and grounded.

All permutations are available for purchase. Unfortunately, as a new reefer (or old alike), it's hard to quickly deduce what category a particular product fits into. How much is hogwash- what is optional and what is necessary? This is no different than going to an Autozone and looking at their products. "Will that product really improve my mpg?" "Is this transmission fluid really worth the extra cost?" "Will I regret using the cheaper oil filter?"

Now back to Red Sea. They are simply making a reccomendation based on a "system" that utilizes many of their products. Some of the suggestions they have made are not ones I would necessary suggest as blanket suggetions to all reefers- however, that doesn't mean they are wrong. Just different ways of running a tank. Some spend the money on their products and achieve success. Others do not. Others find success using products that may cost more or less than their products or use different products altogether (or none at all)! If a company sold or believed in zeovit, they would probably make recommendations to use zeovit products. Companies that advocate the berlin or balling make similar suggestions for their products.

Please understand, I'm not trying to poo poo Red Sea or make any claims about the use of their calculator. Ultimately, if one turns to a company to supply them with information or recommendations, they may not be getting an independent answer to many of the questions you raised

Yeah, nicely put. I am not trying to speak against RS either, they are the subject of my thread because they were the only one to come up with such platform (or at least the only one I could find). As a new reefer, it's more like I am trying to understand what is required for this hobby to keep it going and honestly half of the products don't look necessary to me, but it's hard to navigate through.

 

[andrewey]

I always advise new reefers to start with the basics of what is required. The rest is optional

Mandatory: Water, Salt, Surface Area for biological filtration, a container to hold the water
Probably necessary for many: A heater, something to move your water, lights

I know it sounds silly, but I can't tell you how many times people start with the nicest equipment and never ponder why they're using what they are using or paying a premium. It's fine to drive a BMW, ferrari, or a tesla, but a new driver should start with the idea of a generic sedan and build the features from the basics instead of the other way around.

So in this case, start with saltwater. Beyond feeding your fish and providing light/flow for your corals, do you need to dose xxx product? No. Many of the nicest tanks in the world don't dose xxx.

That isn't to say you shouldn't. You may see a benefit. You may not. It could help or it could harm. But it's completely optional. If you don't know how your tank functions at "baseline", you'll never know what effect xxx product has on the tank. This is why it's common for a new reefer to say, "I used this product and look at my growth/coloration". Maybe they're right. Or maybe if they never used it, their tank would look the same. The real experiment would to compare the dose vs the control.

 

[anddak]

I always advise new reefers to start with the basics of what is required. The rest is optional

Mandatory: Water, Salt, Surface Area for biological filtration, a container to hold the water
Probably necessary for many: A heater, something to move your water, lights

I know it sounds silly, but I can't tell you how many times people start with the nicest equipment and never ponder why they're using what they are using or paying a premium. It's fine to drive a BMW, ferrari, or a tesla, but a new driver should start with the idea of a generic sedan and build the features from the basics instead of the other way around.

So in this case, start with saltwater. Beyond feeding your fish and providing light/flow for your corals, do you need to dose xxx product? No. Many of the nicest tanks in the world don't dose xxx.

That isn't to say you shouldn't. You may see a benefit. You may not. It could help or it could harm. But it's completely optional. If you don't know how your tank functions at "baseline", you'll never know what effect xxx product has on the tank. This is why it's common for a new reefer to say, "I used this product and look at my growth/coloration". Maybe they're right. Or maybe if they never used it, their tank would look the same. The real experiment would to compare the dose vs the control.

More or less I started the same way, but it escalated quickly. "Oh they say the return pump of the fluval not strong enough, let's upgrade to the Eheim compat1000. Oh they say I need more water movement, let's add a RFL output nozzle. Oh this is still not enough...let's add a jebao wavemaker."

Got a good salt that according to the instructions gives me all the right parameters when mixing with RODI....then I realised my kH is dropping heavily, so I started supplementing it, then I realised my Ca and Mg started dropping so I started supplementing.

Then all the algae came..so I ordered NOPOX (still on it's way and I am fairly convinced I won't put it into the tank, but I am easily manipulated as you can see)

So yeah, I think you get the idea...hah.

 

[User1]

Yeah, nicely put. I am not trying to speak against RS either, they are the subject of my thread because they were the only one to come up with such platform (or at least the only one I could find). As a new reefer, it's more like I am trying to understand what is required for this hobby to keep it going and honestly half of the products don't look necessary to me, but it's hard to navigate through.

There are others. Triton for example. Additive based, balling, etc.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I've never taken advice from Red Sea except to advise people wanting to use their products.

 

[rmurken]

Then all the algae came..so I ordered NOPOX (still on it's way and I am fairly convinced I won't put it into the tank, but I am easily manipulated as you can see)

It’s really normal for a new tank to grow all kinds of stuff in succession. My tank was a wreck for the first year. Grew fuzzy pink stuff, gooey black stuff, green blotchy stuff, diatoms, you name it.

Eventually it found its groove. A lot of marketing is geared toward an inherent urge to chase numbers and get results overnight. You’re better off getting into a solid maintenance regime and giving it time. I have avoided fancy additives. I switched from IO Purple to Reef Crystals (momentary insanity—will go back). I once bottomed out my NO3 and added some stump remover. That’s as fancy as I’ve gotten. My other additives are kalk and Randy’s two-part.

 

[Servopkg]

More or less I started the same way, but it escalated quickly. "Oh they say the return pump of the fluval not strong enough, let's upgrade to the Eheim compat1000. Oh they say I need more water movement, let's add a RFL output nozzle. Oh this is still not enough...let's add a jebao wavemaker."

Got a good salt that according to the instructions gives me all the right parameters when mixing with RODI....then I realised my kH is dropping heavily, so I started supplementing it, then I realised my Ca and Mg started dropping so I started supplementing.

Then all the algae came..so I ordered NOPOX (still on it's way and I am fairly convinced I won't put it into the tank, but I am easily manipulated as you can see)

So yeah, I think you get the idea...hah.

Oh I totally can agree with you. Love red sea and fell in love with it as I thought it could provide me with a miracle formula to keep everything in check...a sort of security blanket as I learned what to do in my first tank. I've even considered upgrading to one of their tanks like the 350, but now holding back...think I can do better.

I also have a Fluval evo 13 gal coming up on 5 months old. I ditched the skimmer in the first month (really good choice, i followed the advice...you need a skimmer...no, really the evo skimmer is crap..i will put a skimmer on a bigger system). I thought I needed red sea A+B to dose to keep coral healthy as I was starting to buy some LPS/Softies, nope...just lead to brown hair algae growth because of extra nutrients in the system.... bought a Jaebo dosing pump system because I was sick of dosing every night...that still is cool, but now only dosing Alk, 3 heads are unused...really want to get coralline algae growing better so the tank is more stable. Really happy with my intank media basket for chamber 1...but still a little uncertain of exactly the right media to put in there... I put in GFO, Purigen and Phosgard currenly, but not much of it because it's a small system. I did upgrade lights (AI Prime HD 16) and add a ATO system (Tunze Nano) because those items I think are crucial to success of the tank.

So long story short, if you're a newbie, like me...you'll follow things blindly, just to learn that dang...i really didn't need that and I should have just left the tank alone and enjoyed it.. I know i'll say that until i don't do something that i need to, and it will slap me in the face.. That also is learning. Like at this moment...first time leaving the tank for 4 days while on vacation...i have a web cam setup so I can see whats going on with it. Its been fine, only the bubble tip anemone is moving around on me. LOL

Happy reefing, its a really hard hobby that will take years to understand. Wow. Hit me up if you have any questions...I can't claim that I will have the answers, but will give it a shot.