red spot and torn dorsal fin

melonheadorion · Jun 28, 2021

seems i am having every issue known to man recently. i just noticed a red spot on the side of my diamond goby, as well as his dorsal fin being torn. i could possibly attribute the dorsal fin to anything, and dont think its anything too bad, but i also noticed that there is a red spot on the side. i would assume it is bacterial?
the fish is still eating well, active, not showing any odd signs. hoping to see if anyone can confirm bacterial just to make sure i am treating right? i have a bottle of maracyn oxy, that seems to treat bacterial and fungal issues. would this work, or should i also dose something different, or in addition to?
if needed, i have some neoplex, general cure, coppersafe, and prazi pro

@Jay Hemdal

Jay Hemdal · Jun 28, 2021

What other animals are in the tank? I wonder if what caused the split dorsal fin also caused the red spots? How long have you had the goby?

Jay

melonheadorion · Jun 28, 2021

Bi color angel, 2 clowns, and bi color blenny. Ive had him for as long as I've had the tank, so maybe 4 months or so. Should I go the qt route to dose anything, or you think its something else. I would hate to not do anything after losing quite a few fish in the last month or two. I've lost 2 tail spot blennies to what I would think is something that caused bloating and there was the royal grammar that had the same redness going on

Jay Hemdal · Jun 28, 2021

melonheadorion said:
Bi color angel, 2 clowns, and bi color blenny. Ive had him for as long as I've had the tank, so maybe 4 months or so. Should I go the qt route to dose anything, or you think its something else. I would hate to not do anything after losing quite a few fish in the last month or two. I've lost 2 tail spot blennies to what I would think is something that caused bloating and there was the royal grammar that had the same redness going on

What I was trying to rule out is a disease known as Uronema. It looks very much like an injury, but is caused by a protozoan. There really isn't an effective treatment for that, and know that I know you had a royal gramma with similar issues, I am starting to wonder. Uronema does not infect every fish species. Here is a link to an article I wrote about it:

Uronema / Red Band Disease - Hemdal

Red Band Syndrome in Marine Fishes: Caused by the Protozoan; Uronema sp. Jay Hemdal Introduction: This moderately common disease of certain species of marine fish is so often misdiagnosed that most aquarists apply incorrect treatment methods...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

melonheadorion · Jun 28, 2021

Jay Hemdal said:
What I was trying to rule out is a disease known as Uronema. It looks very much like an injury, but is caused by a protozoan. There really isn't an effective treatment for that, and know that I know you had a royal gramma with similar issues, I am starting to wonder. Uronema does not infect every fish species. Here is a link to an article I wrote about it:

Uronema / Red Band Disease - Hemdal

Red Band Syndrome in Marine Fishes: Caused by the Protozoan; Uronema sp. Jay Hemdal Introduction: This moderately common disease of certain species of marine fish is so often misdiagnosed that most aquarists apply incorrect treatment methods...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

If it is indeed uronema, the outcome doesn't sound promising. If it happens to be the case, is the uronema going to be potentially dangerous for the tank inhabitants, or should I quarantine him in the meantime

Dolphins18 · Jun 28, 2021

I was not aware of uronema affecting gobies but I do believe all your other inhabitants will be fine. It certainly looks like uronema to me.
Stay away from anthias and chromis/damsels, most other species are not affected ime, Jay can probably add to that list.

Jay Hemdal · Jun 28, 2021

melonheadorion said:
If it is indeed uronema, the outcome doesn't sound promising. If it happens to be the case, is the uronema going to be potentially dangerous for the tank inhabitants, or should I quarantine him in the meantime

How contagious Uronema is isn’t really known. Evene in cases where susceptible fish are present (like a school of green chromis) they may not all catch it. Then, some species hardly ever get it, like clownfish.
The one thing that isn’t matching up to Uronema here is the length of time you’ve had the goby. I’ve never had it show up in a fish that long after arrival.
Jay

melonheadorion · Jun 28, 2021

Jay Hemdal said:
How contagious Uronema is isn’t really known. Evene in cases where susceptible fish are present (like a school of green chromis) they may not all catch it. Then, some species hardly ever get it, like clownfish.
The one thing that isn’t matching up to Uronema here is the length of time you’ve had the goby. I’ve never had it show up in a fish that long after arrival.
Jay

logic says that its an injury. like ive said before, i see my fish every day, and i tend to acknowledge anything odd about them throughout the whole day. i know that these sores were not there in the late evening. this includes the dorsal fin injury, but yet as soon as he emerged for the day, i noticed these anomolies. perhaps its coincidence, but coincidence is hard to believe sometimes.
im hoping for the best, to think that maybe its an injury, but am prepared for it to be something that will end it. i guess, if your synopsis is that you have not seen it show up on a fish after being in a tank for a long time, is it possible that in an instance where the royal gramma was new to the tank, is it possible that she brought it in, and it infected the goby? i ask this because the proximity of where the gramma stayed, to where the goby is, was very close, like within 5 inches away. but again, another thing to take into consideration would be the length of time of how long it takes for the uronema to affect another fish. that was about 7 days ago when i took that fish out. i would suspect that if it were going to infect another fish, i would have seen it a bit sooner?

Jay Hemdal · Jun 29, 2021

Proximity in the tank isn't a factor, the protozoan can move through the water on currents.

However, I'm confused about the timeline - the royal gramma died only 7 days ago? That is well within what I think would be a timeline for Uronema to be contagious.

Jay

melonheadorion · Jun 29, 2021

Jay Hemdal said:
Proximity in the tank isn't a factor, the protozoan can move through the water on currents.

However, I'm confused about the timeline - the royal gramma died only 7 days ago? That is well within what I think would be a timeline for Uronema to be contagious.

Jay

with your experience, and i would assume that you have seen this first hand, if this is a thing that spreads, with the original picture, would you say that it should be spreading through the course of 24 hours? IE getting bigger, changing shapes, etc? or would it be an un-noticeable change. by the material you listed, i would suspect i should see a noticeable change in one way or another?

melonheadorion · Jun 29, 2021

todays observation: he seemed to have come out of his hiding a bit late. i was a bit worried there for a while, but i may have been overthinking it. he came out, and is doing is normal routine. still active, not acting lethargic, no change in eating habits, etc. i found that the dorsal fin, from what i can tell, is repairing itself. not sure if that is a thing, but the split that it had yesterday is no where near where the size that it was. the spot itself, does seem to have changed. if anything, it almost seems to have improved a slit bit. hard to tell unless i were to see it in the same exact angle. im still in hopes that its just an injury. i did see him get tangled up a bit in the macro algae the other day going in for food, so maybe it was something of that nature. crossing my fingers for sure

Jay Hemdal · Jun 29, 2021

melonheadorion said:
with your experience, and i would assume that you have seen this first hand, if this is a thing that spreads, with the original picture, would you say that it should be spreading through the course of 24 hours? IE getting bigger, changing shapes, etc? or would it be an un-noticeable change. by the material you listed, i would suspect i should see a noticeable change in one way or another?

The trouble with Uronema is that it develops deep in the fish’s muscle tissue. As it gets worse, you then see the lesion erupt on the skin. That means you cannot use the development of the external lesion to judge the level of infection, when you see it, it is an end stage symptom.
However, in your second post, you say the lesion may be improving and that the fish is still eating. Uronema doesn’t get better and the fish stop eating.
Jay

melonheadorion · Jun 29, 2021

Jay Hemdal said:
The trouble with Uronema is that it develops deep in the fish’s muscle tissue. As it gets worse, you then see the lesion erupt on the skin. That means you cannot use the development of the external lesion to judge the level of infection, when you see it, it is an end stage symptom.
However, in your second post, you say the lesion may be improving and that the fish is still eating. Uronema doesn’t get better and the fish stop eating.
Jay

that was my suspicion, with the eating. i wasnt sure that if it was something that caused fin rot, and even though the dorsal fin issue was not actual fin rot, the fact that the fin is healing would generally go against what bacteria does if it were still actively progressing, as far as i know?

that makes a ton more sense now. by the reference photos that i have seen, it always looks like somethign that has started from the surface and ate away at it, but if it starts from the inside, and progressively gets worse, showing to the outside, it would easily cause the victim to feel discomfort eating, and in this case, since he is a sand sifter, i would suspect that he would probably stop sifting sand even, which he has not done. i will keep an eye on things, and give an outcome for reference of people that might run into something similar for the future

melonheadorion · Jul 1, 2021

as of this morning, the dark red spot has disappeared, and the dorsal fin is completely repaired. seems that it was just an injury from something. my suspicion is that he got caught in the macro or under a rock, and when trying to free himself by backing out, tore the dorsal fin, and maybe strained the other fin or over extended it to where it bruised the side of the body in which it is attached. in either instance, goes to show that you have to look at all of the signs, such as appetite and other behavior