Redfield Ratio / Old tank Syndrome

[Subsea]

Some time back, when I posted the N ratio of Gracilaria Hayi @Lasse asked me what was the carbon. It added up to 110. I do remember that the sodium ratio to phosphate 80:1

what about silicate and iron? Don’t they play a part? I only know enough to stir the pot

Those numbers are included with carbon.

Individually, silica & iron will stunt growth if they are limited.

 

[areefer01]

I don’t know what to say about the correlation between water change dilution and the RedField Ratio linkage but it reminds me of the Kennedy/Lincoln coincidences that were popular discussion items when the internet was in its infancy.

I have not thought about the latter discussions in a long time but I do like the idea of continuous water changes as a method to manage water quality in our reefs.

The task of maintaining good water quality for long periods of time and adjusting parameters to keep the coral thriving is a challenge that many people debate over and few people are continually successful at, in my observation and also sadly in my own experience.

You got me but I probably should have clarified that I was not really posting in regards to the redfield ratio but rather the comment about 'an imbalance of bacteria types may contribute to old tank syndrome.' I'm not sure how they are defining old tank syndrome but to be honest when I replied water came to mind thus my question.
How this all relates to Redfield I don't know nor do I really care. Hell did Redfield even maintain a reef?

 

[mizimmer90]

Genuine question: is there a purported significance to the redfield ratio other than certain micro green algaes having an average elemental composition based on its fraction of Lipids/proteins/ nucleotides etc.? Like, do algae have mechanisms to store extra C, N, P in vacuoles or something weird to maintain these ratios?

 

[Subsea]

“Like, do algae have mechanisms to store extra C, N, P in vacuoles or something weird to maintain these ratios?”

I can only document iron storage in macro algae. The mechanism was documented in @Randy Holmes-Farley article on dosing iron,

I was dosing iron to a 55G monoculture of Gracilaria Hayi when I spilled 500ml of Fe into tank. Water turned red for a day and cleared up the next day. Within a few days, I noticed a thickening of Hayi fronds with raised mounds on flat surfaces. With no further iron dosing, two weeks later everything returned to normal.

 

[KrisReef]

You got me but I probably should have clarified that I was not really posting in regards to the redfield ratio but rather the comment about 'an imbalance of bacteria types may contribute to old tank syndrome.' I'm not sure how they are defining old tank syndrome but to be honest when I replied water came to mind thus my question.
How this all relates to Redfield I don't know nor do I really care. Hell did Redfield even maintain a reef?

I blame Redfield every time I have an RTN event. I believe that he is the inventor of the "Tank Crash."

I agree the skimmers imbalanced impact upon bacteria could be a problem, and again I blame this to on Redfield. If he wanted to be a scientist he should have had at least a couple of tanks and done something useful with them.

This whole thread has my head spinning, but in a good way. It is good to think about all this stuff and the applications of knowledge to improve the hobby for everyone.

 

[mizimmer90]

“Like, do algae have mechanisms to store extra C, N, P in vacuoles or something weird to maintain these ratios?”

I can only document iron storage in macro algae. The mechanism was documented in @Randy Holmes-Farley article on dosing iron,

I was dosing iron to a 55G monoculture of Gracilaria Hayi when I spilled 500ml of Fe into tank. Water turned red for a day and cleared up the next day. Within a few days, I noticed a thickening of Hayi fronds with raised mounds on flat surfaces. With no further iron dosing, two weeks later everything returned to normal.

Oh crazy! Thanks for the info! Could I get a link to the article? I can't seem to find it from a quick Google search; @Randy Holmes-Farley's too popular and I don't feel like spending 2 hours sifting through the forum lol

 

[Subsea]

I blame Redfield every time I have an RTN event. I believe that he is the inventor of the "Tank Crash."

I agree the skimmers imbalanced impact upon bacteria could be a problem, and again I blame this to on Redfield. If he wanted to be a scientist he should have had at least a couple of tanks and done something useful with them.

This whole thread has my head spinning, but in a good way. It is good to think about all this stuff and the applications of knowledge to improve the hobby for everyone.

If you think this thread is a head splitter, check out
@Beuchat

THE CHEMICAL INTERACTION BETWEEN SPECIES AS A HYPOTHESIS FOR A MATURE TANK

Algae, unavoidable companions. Algae are undoubtedly one of the inhabitants of a reef tank that cause the biggest headaches to hobbyists. In a world idealized by aesthetics, we might wish that these living beings were out of our system, however, this wish makes no biological and ecological...

www.reef2reef.com

Oh crazy! Thanks for the info! Could I get a link to the article? I can't seem to find it from a quick Google search; @Randy Holmes-Farley's too popular and I don't feel like spending 2 hours sifting through the forum lol

It’s been > 10 years since I found it. Let’s see what Randy says. It was an old thread on RC.

 

[Subsea]

Iron and Iodide

I do alot of my own research, but for some reason am having a hard time, as to what levels each of these elements need to be for optimum macroalgae health. I've run refugiums and reactors for years with good results, but still maintained regular water changes with quality salt to rely on...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[mizimmer90]

Iron and Iodide

I do alot of my own research, but for some reason am having a hard time, as to what levels each of these elements need to be for optimum macroalgae health. I've run refugiums and reactors for years with good results, but still maintained regular water changes with quality salt to rely on...

www.reef2reef.com

Nice! I was literally going to ask if it was a mechanism like siderophores lol. I didn't realize algae had them too!

 

[Subsea]

Research unlocks secrets of iron storage in algae

New research shows that phytoplankton iron storage strategies may determine which species thrive in changing oceans and impact marine food webs, according to a recent paper in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. The research examined two primary methods of iron storage and found...

phys.org

“The study focused on diatoms, single-celled algae that live inside glass shells and are one of the most bountiful groups of phytoplankton. A secret of their success, Twining believes, is how well they store iron, a critical nutrient that is scarce in 40 percent of the global ocean. Diatoms stockpile iron by two main methods: storing the molecules in a bag-like organ called a vacuole or chemically locking them away in the protein ferritin.“

 

[mizimmer90]

Research unlocks secrets of iron storage in algae

New research shows that phytoplankton iron storage strategies may determine which species thrive in changing oceans and impact marine food webs, according to a recent paper in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. The research examined two primary methods of iron storage and found...

phys.org

“The study focused on diatoms, single-celled algae that live inside glass shells and are one of the most bountiful groups of phytoplankton. A secret of their success, Twining believes, is how well they store iron, a critical nutrient that is scarce in 40 percent of the global ocean. Diatoms stockpile iron by two main methods: storing the molecules in a bag-like organ called a vacuole or chemically locking them away in the protein ferritin.“

Perfect! Sideophores I knew about but I haven't heard of this; I'm excited to give this a read, thanks!

 

[Subsea]

You got me but I probably should have clarified that I was not really posting in regards to the redfield ratio but rather the comment about 'an imbalance of bacteria types may contribute to old tank syndrome.' I'm not sure how they are defining old tank syndrome but to be honest when I replied water came to mind thus my question.
How this all relates to Redfield I don't know nor do I really care. Hell did Redfield even maintain a reef?

In the video, Abe illustrated old tank syndrome with degradation of SPS. I know next to nothing about SPS.

I am a sponge and seaweed man at heart. I also cherish flame scallops & sea apples,

PS: I should add that article that @Beuchat wrote better describes imbalance of bacteria.

THE CHEMICAL INTERACTION BETWEEN SPECIES AS AN HYPOTHESIS FOR A MATURE TANK

Algae, unavoidable companions. Algae are undoubtedly one of the inhabitants of a reef tank that cause the biggest headaches to hobbyists. In a world idealized by aesthetics, we might wish that these living beings were out of our system...

www.reef2reef.com