Reduce sump evaporation help needed

Detour · Mar 11, 2022

About a year ago, I replaced by 12 year old SeaLife Reefmaster Pro sump on my 120DT system with a Bashsea Smart Series sump. My 120DT has two drains.

Info on the Bashsea Smart Series here - https://bashsea.com/bashsea-products/smart-series-sumps/

With the new setup, I find the system is evaporating nearly twice the water a day than I did previously - which I attribute to the sump design. I get lots of air bubbles into the sock area of the Bashsea sump and there isn't a Bashsea offered cover that promotes keeping water from splashing and evaporating. My LFS provided a rough cut plexiglass cover for the refugium side of the Bashsea sump - but all it seems to do is allow water to creep over the edges and down the outsides of the sump.

I also run the Apex Flow meters and confirmed that my turn over of GPH is with 10 GPH with the new sump as it was with the old.

Any ideas how to reduce the evaporation and bubbles in the sump with the BashSea sump? I upgraded from 2.5 gallon jugs for RO to a Bashsea ATO reservoir - and I go through water in the 8-ish gallons reservoir nearly as fast I used to out of the 2.5 gallon jugs - and filling the reservoir is a pain. The hope was to have the system be self-contained for 5-7 days and at this evaporation rate, it isn't.

Photo of my sump for review/reference.

Doctorgori · Mar 12, 2022

I think I get a lot of evap from the DT overflows even before it reaches the sump, but I have a ole skool Aqueon ….got a pic of the dt?
what are those black abs caps over your socks for?

and btw that looks neat, clean and organized, if not packed… impressive

ying yang · Mar 12, 2022

Not sure where you are in world but in colder climates use more top off water for evaporated due to the cold air so that could be part of reason if just changed,( I understand you will be going off how much lost in old sump just before change but thought I mention anyway )
First I would be looking at why and how water evaporates with tje temperature/ water agitation/ any water falls in sump breaking the water as hitting it/ if no lid on sump/ the actual water surface area of the sump then put stuff in place to counteract it like a lid ( buy still leave enough open to let clean air to get in/ reduce some of heights of water falls if you can and the likes of this.
But basically research how and why water evaporates then look if your new sump encourages this more then research how to counteract / limit this,but was a thread the other week on how big r2r members tanks are and how much evaporation they have and 8 gallons evaporated on 120g dt seems about same amount that most said evaporated in there systems close to your tank volume.
As 12 gallons us 10% so you around 8-9% maybe but that's if total system of yours is 120 gallons or if you have 120 g in dt + water in sump then your % much less

ying yang · Mar 12, 2022

How much water does your tank evaporate each week

How much water does your tank evaporate each week and how large is your tank? Do you take any precautionary measures to limit the evaporation amount? I go through about 30 gallons a week on a 240 gallon tank. Feel like that is a lot, but in my past set up, I didn’t monitor it as closely as I do...

www.reef2reef.com

Here a thread on how much evaporate people have.
Lots factors why water evaporates from a tank like windows in house open/ shut/ where tank situated/ heat used in house etc etc

Detour · Mar 12, 2022

Doctorgori said:
I think I get a lot of evap from the DT overflows even before it reaches the sump, but I have a ole skool Aqueon ….got a pic of the dt?
what are those black abs caps over your socks for?

and btw that looks neat, clean and organized, if not packed… impressive

The black caps are bulkheads that come installed on the sump for the drains. I use 2 of the 3 for my 2 drains, and have a plug in the 3rd.

And yes, my 120DT is the Aqueon as well - pic below.

And a full tank shot as setup.

Detour · Mar 12, 2022

Thanks for the various responses. I understand that evaporation is based on a number of factors - ambient temperature, humidity level in the house, air flow across water surface, etc. And that it often changes over the course of the year with changing seasons. I'm in Michigan - so winters are considerably drier than summers, but we do have a whole house humidifier.

That said - the tank has been in the same location, with the same canopy and use of canopy fans for a number of years. During that time, I would swap out a 2.5 gallon jug of RO every 2-4 days. When I redid the sump, I added a custom Bashsea ATO reservoir (the 10 gallon was just a tad too wide to fit with the existing stand and tank already setup (just couldn't maneuver it and sump to be put in place). the custom size is 8-ish gallons. The goal was to be able to run without intervention for a week if needed (I have an auto feeder).

So - there is something with the new sump setup that is attributing to the additional evaporation - as the water flow, location, canopy, stand, general ambient temperature, have been constant between the old sump and new sump.

I feel like I need a solution to reduce the bubbles from the drains, and keep this sump chamber better covered.

EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal · Mar 12, 2022

First question:after the water flows through the bulkheads on the sump, does it go through any piping before hitting the socks? (i.e. is there pipe below the bulkhead?) There really shouldn't be a noticeable amount of splashing like you described.

EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal · Mar 12, 2022

Second question: what type of drain system are you running? (Herbie, Bean Animal, other?)

EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal · Mar 12, 2022

The added surface agitation (including the production and dissipation of the bubbles) is likely what has increased your evap. If the water draining into the sump "hits air" before reaching the sock chamber, this will cause splashing and bubbles. So will running a drain that is not a full siphon (but it does not sound like you changed your drain system, just the sump...).
A third, but less likely, cause of bubbles is the water flowing into the sump at too high a speed.

EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal · Mar 12, 2022

Third question: what was your previous sump design? Particularly, # of chambers, what was in each chamber, and overall water level

EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal · Mar 12, 2022

Looking at the images you posted, as well as the pictures of the sump design on the Banshee website, it looks like you could add/move a baffle forward to right after the socks (separate the socks from the fuge). If you can do so, this might at least help contain the bubbles and reduce the agitation in the uncovered parts of the sump.

ptrusk · Mar 12, 2022

Get a few hydrometers. Evap varies between seasons especially where you are as you said. These are cheap:

Put one on each floor, in the gun room, wherever. It will give you a better idea of humidity in your home. Dry air will result in more evap. Will also help you set your humidifier. 40% in winter is pretty good.

Detour · Mar 12, 2022

Thanks @Erin1971Texas for the follow up.

My tank is an Aqueon, and I have 2 overflow boxes with a return and Durso standpipe for the drain in each. My old plumbing (shown below) was 3/4 returns and 1" drains. I had a goal increasing the GPH turnover (transitioned to Triton method). As is, I'm still running the same GPH with the new setup and COR 20 return pipe than I was running with the old sump and Eheim return pump - and it's noise and evaporates more water.

When I pulled the sump and redid the plumbing, the returns are 1" and the drains were originally 1.5. The 1.5 were SUPER noisy, so it was redone in 1" and I added gate valves above the bulkhead to the sump - letting me throttle it down to quiet it down (tested this with the 1.5 drains with gate valves below the water line on the sump side of the drain bulkheads for a bit before adding them). Because I don't have an emergency drain, I'm fearful of going full syphon without other failsafes in place (like a float in my overflow that shuts down the return pump via my Apex).

My current drains go to the sump bulkhead, then to a pipe that drains below the water level in the sump. These are on the inside of 4" socks.

The previous sump had 3 chambers - one that had both drains that then overflowed into one 6" sock. That chamber than went into the large fuge chamber, and via a baffle then went into the chamber with the skimmer and return pump. Pic of that old setup below - including a pre shut down and tear one with most of the gear removed.

EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal · Mar 12, 2022

Is it possible to redesign the current 4 hole system?
Options:
1. Using the current configuration, lower one drain pipe in order to run a fill siphon, and raise the other to use as an emergency drain; kind of a "split-herbie"
2. Put both drains in one overflow box and use a Herbie design - you'd want the larger pipe to be the emergency drain. Put both returns in the other overflow box (or plug one bulkhead and just use 1 return)

I am not sure I understand the Triton method, so maybe the suggestions above will defeat your original purpose.

Did you think about adding a baffle right after the socks?

Detour · Mar 12, 2022

Erin1971Texas said:
Is it possible to redesign the current 4 hole system?
Options:
1. Using the current configuration, lower one drain pipe in order to run a fill siphon, and raise the other to use as an emergency drain; kind of a "split-herbie"
2. Put both drains in one overflow box and use a Herbie design - you'd want the larger pipe to be the emergency drain. Put both returns in the other overflow box (or plug one bulkhead and just use 1 return)

I am not sure I understand the Triton method, so maybe the suggestions above will defeat your original purpose.

Did you think about adding a baffle right after the socks?

I considered configuring to Herbie, but with 1" bulkheads, using only 1 for the syphon drain - I'm not sure if I'll obtain the GPH turn over I want. I'm also not sure if the using the 2nd 1" drain as an emergency is ideal either - usually want to size up for the emergency. I'm also concerned of the impact of taking away water turn over from inside of one of my overflow boxes in that scenario.

Frustrating that investing in a new sump and redoing the plumbing afforded me a bit better configured sump for equipment - but introduced flow, bubble and evaporation issues.

I was wondering if the flexible media cups for use in 4" sock holders is an option - with sponge and a lid to help capture bubbles.

Triton method is a filtration/supplement approach.