Spitfire109
New Member
I haven't found any angelfish (no butterflies either) that are really suitable for a reef tank. But I keep looking for one. Is there any possible candidates for a 55 gallon reef tank.
Reef angelfish?
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Reef_Lounge_USA
Active Member
Any Genicanthus Angelfish would be reef safe but would be too big for a 55 gallon. As far as butterflyfish go, the Hemitaurichthys butterflies are reef safe but also get too big for a 55 gallon tank. Dwarf Angelfish, Centropyge, would do fine in a 55 gallon but can be hit or miss in a reef. The new issue of Coral Magazine has a great write up on reef safe angelfish. The author list a few species that seem more reef safe than others.
OP
OP
Spitfire109
New Member
Darn, well it seems that my search shall continue, but thanks.
Waters
"...in perfect isolation, here behind my wall."
Unfortunately the only angels that would work in a 55 would be the dwarfs, and none of them are 100% reef safe. I have tried and had to remove Flames, Eibls, Bi-Colors, and am currently watching my new Golden Dwarf eat my Acans. It is the luck of the draw.....and I have been very unlucky lol.
Amphibious
Oldest Salt
I regularly keep the family Centropyge in with my corals. The key is to “train” them to eat other foods. That is best done in quarantine (QT). Since most aquarists do not QT their new arrivals, most angel fish will nip at corals. If you do not QT, your gambling on several fronts. First is introducing a diseased fish and second having a fish that is a reluctant eater of the foods we offer.
Generally speaking, unless the fish you are buying is captive breed, the fish from the wild have a big adjustment to make in the foods offered them and they can be “fussy” eaters. Some even die of starvation. Why is that? Most aquarists offer the following food items, flake or pellet food, brine shrimp, mysis shrimp, black worms, arctic pods, and a few other “foreign” foods. None of which are the natural food found on the reef, home of our “reef” fish. So, they have to adjust their preferences.
If their normal preference on the reef is to eat coral polyps, you will be hard pressed to change that preference with out first conditioning them to our "foreign" food offerings. BUT, it can be done in QT.
Here is my Orange Spotted File fish (Oxymonacanthus longirostris) a known exclusive coral poly eater, eating Nori. He also ate brine and mysis shrimp. This because I QT’d him for thirty days and fed him the shrimp exclusively. He picked up the taste for Nori by watching my angel fish and tangs tear at the Nori. He simply followed their lead and developed a taste for other foods than coral polyps. He never picked at the polyps.
This is just one example of what can be done in a QT system Do I recommend anyone run out a grab a Orange Spot File and put it into a reef tank??? No!!! Unless you are willing to take the effort to QT and train them to survive on alternative food items.
Dick
Generally speaking, unless the fish you are buying is captive breed, the fish from the wild have a big adjustment to make in the foods offered them and they can be “fussy” eaters. Some even die of starvation. Why is that? Most aquarists offer the following food items, flake or pellet food, brine shrimp, mysis shrimp, black worms, arctic pods, and a few other “foreign” foods. None of which are the natural food found on the reef, home of our “reef” fish. So, they have to adjust their preferences.
If their normal preference on the reef is to eat coral polyps, you will be hard pressed to change that preference with out first conditioning them to our "foreign" food offerings. BUT, it can be done in QT.
Here is my Orange Spotted File fish (Oxymonacanthus longirostris) a known exclusive coral poly eater, eating Nori. He also ate brine and mysis shrimp. This because I QT’d him for thirty days and fed him the shrimp exclusively. He picked up the taste for Nori by watching my angel fish and tangs tear at the Nori. He simply followed their lead and developed a taste for other foods than coral polyps. He never picked at the polyps.
This is just one example of what can be done in a QT system Do I recommend anyone run out a grab a Orange Spot File and put it into a reef tank??? No!!! Unless you are willing to take the effort to QT and train them to survive on alternative food items.
Dick
OP
OP
Spitfire109
New Member
I regularly keep the family Centropyge in with my corals. The key is to “train” them to eat other foods. That is best done in quarantine (QT). Since most aquarists do not QT their new arrivals, most angel fish will nip at corals. If you do not QT, your gambling on several fronts. First is introducing a diseased fish and second having a fish that is a reluctant eater of the foods we offer.
Generally speaking, unless the fish you are buying is captive breed, the fish from the wild have a big adjustment to make in the foods offered them and they can be “fussy” eaters. Some even die of starvation. Why is that? Most aquarists offer the following food items, flake or pellet food, brine shrimp, mysis shrimp, black worms, arctic pods, and a few other “foreign” foods. None of which are the natural food found on the reef, home of our “reef” fish. So, they have to adjust their preferences.
If their normal preference on the reef is to eat coral polyps, you will be hard pressed to change that preference with out first conditioning them to our "foreign" food offerings. BUT, it can be done in QT.
Here is my Orange Spotted File fish (Oxymonacanthus longirostris) a known exclusive coral poly eater, eating Nori. He also ate brine and mysis shrimp. This because I QT’d him for thirty days and fed him the shrimp exclusively. He picked up the taste for Nori by watching my angel fish and tangs tear at the Nori. He simply followed their lead and developed a taste for other foods than coral polyps. He never picked at the polyps.
This is just one example of what can be done in a QT system Do I recommend anyone run out a grab a Orange Spot File and put it into a reef tank??? No!!! Unless you are willing to take the effort to QT and train them to survive on alternative food items.
Dick
That's actually a very good system, I'll have to try that. Also nice file fish it's so adorable.
Waters
"...in perfect isolation, here behind my wall."
Can I lend you my Golden Dwarf so that he can be trained since I don't have the patience
IMO; keeping dwarf angels in a reef is a mixed bag. Most of the time, it's not a question of if, but when, they will start nipping. And what. Sometimes it's something you can live with. I have 4 of them in my 150 gal mixed reef, and even though I know they nip, I generally don't notice any damage with the mature coral colonies in there. Now if I was trying to fill a tank with small frags, I might be in trouble. 
One strategy to control their nipping is to overfeed. I feed my tank 2-3x daily. However, that comes with it's own vice (high nitrates/phosphates) unless you have a very efficient nutrient export system.
One strategy to control their nipping is to overfeed. I feed my tank 2-3x daily. However, that comes with it's own vice (high nitrates/phosphates) unless you have a very efficient nutrient export system.
reeffirstaid
Active Member
Short answer, no there isn't. Several years ago I separated my reef and fish only tanks, one reason being angelfish. Marine angels are one of my favorite species, but sadly most are prone to nipping at corals. I haven't found one, and I've kept many, that doesn't make keeping corals a frustrating and expensive proposal.
angels i've kept over the years, all coral nippers
coral beauty: moderate nipper
flame: colony killer
joculator: nipper
blue face: colony killer as grows
majestic: moderate nipper
imperator: colony destroyer
blue line: colony destroyer
goldflake: colony destroyer
eibli: colony killer
africanus: nipper
that is all I can remeber...
angels i've kept over the years, all coral nippers
coral beauty: moderate nipper
flame: colony killer
joculator: nipper
blue face: colony killer as grows
majestic: moderate nipper
imperator: colony destroyer
blue line: colony destroyer
goldflake: colony destroyer
eibli: colony killer
africanus: nipper
that is all I can remeber...
eatbreakfast
Fish Nerd
I have seen many of the reef safe with caution angels be fine with corals for awhile, sometimes even years, before eventually developing a taste for at least certain corals. As humblefish said sometimes it's something you can live with.
The only truly reef safe angels are the genus Genicanthus.
The only truly reef safe angels are the genus Genicanthus.
4FordFamily
Tang, Angel, and Wrasse Nerd!
I've had potters and flame Angels that were reef safe, and I've had some of both species that picked at my clams and ate some corals.
It's luck of the draw. IME if you're going to have trouble it will happen in first six months. Not always true I'm sure but just my experience.
I've not kept any other angels in reef long term, but now I will have a Red Sea regal angel, flames, and a Flameback in one of my reefs. Wish me luck lol
It's luck of the draw. IME if you're going to have trouble it will happen in first six months. Not always true I'm sure but just my experience.
I've not kept any other angels in reef long term, but now I will have a Red Sea regal angel, flames, and a Flameback in one of my reefs. Wish me luck lol
Rattooth
Active Member
Currently have 2 200 gallon reef tanks.
Tank 1) Flame , Bandit, Black Velvet
Tank 2) Multicolor , Majestic
The full size Angels are more hit and miss for me in reef.
Most likely to eat Clams and Large Polyp Stoney Corals such as Open Brain.
Safest corals are : leather , zoanthids , mushrooms, SPS
Amphibious
Oldest Salt
Sorry, I failed to mention the rest of the equation, here it is.
While in QT you must feed the angel heavily, as much as it will eat multiple times a day. The QT must be at least 30 days AND, perhaps most importantly, you must continue to feed heavily multiple times every day. Once in the DT they will go back to nipping corals if you let them get hungry. Keeping their belly full of their new food, they will have no need to nip corals. It works for me. Remember we began talking about dwarf angels. So...
reeffirstaid, The large angels in your list, blue face, majestic, blue line, goldflake, and africanus, all would be a challange. But QT’d my way and fed my way I have done it with the blue face, majestic, imperator, along with the Atlantic black, french, and queen angels. Nobody, and I mean nobody, feeds their fish like I do, so few would have the success I do.
If you allow them to get hungry, they will find food in your system. It is simply their will to survive. I’ve had Reefers tell me they feed two cubes of brine shrimp every other day to their fish. I tell them to try that on themselves or better yet their kids. Oh, they couldn’t do that, they respond. Then why expect the fish to go without food. they will find some food and it will be their former favorite, polyps.
You all know what a 4oz specimen cup is, I’m sure. I mix a 16oz package of Hikari Spirolina loaded brine shrimp with a 16oz package of PE mysis shrimp (I am brand specific), thaw, mix in liquid fish vitamins and 12oz of tank water and stir to blend. Then that concoction is placed into 4oz specimen cups and re-froozen. I get 11 or 12 4oz packages. I feed one of them every day to my fish and the slurry produced I feed to my corals, clams and flame scallops and coco worms. Maybe that’s why my flame scallops last well over a year.
That’s why I have success keeping angels off the polyps.
Happy fish are fat fish, and fat fish are healthy.
Dick
danangelo
Well-Known Member
I agree you can train them to eat prpared foods and if you feed a few times a day they usually do ok you will get nipping of corals but if you have a healthy mature reef it should be ok . I have kept butterfly and angelfish in my reef , i had blueface, multicolor, multibar, cbb, filefish, coral beauty, and some other butterfly fish can't remember some of them. And as long as i feed regular they do great. Right now i have a pair of multi bar and a cbb in my tank and no nipping issues. Its when they're starving is when they start eating polyps. I have an auto feeder that runs 4 times a day with pellets and flakes.I regularly keep the family Centropyge in with my corals. The key is to “train” them to eat other foods. That is best done in quarantine (QT). Since most aquarists do not QT their new arrivals, most angel fish will nip at corals. If you do not QT, your gambling on several fronts. First is introducing a diseased fish and second having a fish that is a reluctant eater of the foods we offer.
Generally speaking, unless the fish you are buying is captive breed, the fish from the wild have a big adjustment to make in the foods offered them and they can be “fussy” eaters. Some even die of starvation. Why is that? Most aquarists offer the following food items, flake or pellet food, brine shrimp, mysis shrimp, black worms, arctic pods, and a few other “foreign” foods. None of which are the natural food found on the reef, home of our “reef” fish. So, they have to adjust their preferences.
If their normal preference on the reef is to eat coral polyps, you will be hard pressed to change that preference with out first conditioning them to our "foreign" food offerings. BUT, it can be done in QT.
Here is my Orange Spotted File fish (Oxymonacanthus longirostris) a known exclusive coral poly eater, eating Nori. He also ate brine and mysis shrimp. This because I QT’d him for thirty days and fed him the shrimp exclusively. He picked up the taste for Nori by watching my angel fish and tangs tear at the Nori. He simply followed their lead and developed a taste for other foods than coral polyps. He never picked at the polyps.
This is just one example of what can be done in a QT system Do I recommend anyone run out a grab a Orange Spot File and put it into a reef tank??? No!!! Unless you are willing to take the effort to QT and train them to survive on alternative food items.
Dick
