Reef Breeders and Reef Radiance

[BfishLpond78]

Anyone ever notice how similar these two products are, mainly the controallable ones. I noticed they both have the same controller layout and remote used to control it.

Anyone ever done a comparison?

 

[shred5]

Anyone ever notice how similar these two products are, mainly the controallable ones. I noticed they both have the same controller layout and remote used to control it.

Anyone ever done a comparison?

Actually you will see several others (actually more than several) out there with the same fixtures too... they all buy from the same Chinese factory, basically resellers with maybe a few custom features.

http://www.ledgrowlights.cn/detail.asp?id=319

 

[shovelrider]

The big difference will be in each company's LED color/layout, customer service, and warranty. The lights will have the same components but the factory will suit the fixture to the company's specifications, if the company provides them. My favorite company, which is a sponsor here, has a 2 year warranty and will allow you to do the repair yourself(without voiding the warranty) or send it in to them to do the repair, they also sell individual leds so you can tweak the color spectrum, and without voiding the warranty. You cant beat that IMO!

 

[BfishLpond78]

Which company is that?

 

[shovelrider]

Reef Breeders

 

[tigrtraps]

The big difference will be in each company's LED color/layout, customer service, and warranty. The lights will have the same components but the factory will suit the fixture to the company's specifications, if the company provides them. My favorite company, which is a sponsor here, has a 2 year warranty and will allow you to do the repair yourself(without voiding the warranty) or send it in to them to do the repair, they also sell individual leds so you can tweak the color spectrum, and without voiding the warranty. You cant beat that IMO!

Spot on, with maybe some emphasis being put on the different LEDs. The factories will have different bins (or grades) of LEDs and the companies can request which level they would like at the cost they would like to pay per batch/run of lights.

 

[Ron Reefman]

Actually you will see several others (actually more than several) out there with the same fixtures too... they all buy from the same Chinese factory, basically resellers with maybe a few custom features.

Shenzhen Sanxinbao Semiconductor Lighting Co.,ltd

Which company is that?

Reef Breeders

Spot on, with maybe some emphasis being put on the different LEDs. The factories will have different bins (or grades) of LEDs and the companies can request which level they would like at the cost they would like to pay per batch/run of lights.

That's not exactly the way it is. First thing is, Reef Breeders is not a manufacturer, they're a US company and their fixtures are made by EverGrow in China. BTW, EverGrow is one of the very few Chinese factories that builds real quality products and is trying to make a more US like quality product rather than the typical Chinese super cheap junk. OceanRevive is a US based company and is a distributor for EverGrow direct and does EverGrow warranty work as well.

Now lots of Chinese lights look very similar, but they are not all made at the same factory. In fact there are lots and lots of factories in China that make similar looking fixtures. They are all assembly plants. They all buy the metal case from the same stamping plant. Then there are several electronics makers and some different assembly factories may use the same electronics supplier. And there are driver makers, circuit board makers, fan suppliers, led suppliers and so on and so on. So not all Chinese fixtures are the same even if they look very, very similar on the outside.

Example: TaoTronics used to use a terrible fan supplier and they have switched to a new supplier so their fans are better, but I think they still build a cheaper, meaning not as good a quality fixture as EverGrow. EverGrow has been a huge supplier of led fixtures to the greenhouse and plant nursery market and industrial market. The aquarium market is a new venture for them and they don't really care to promote their own product. They are just as happy to sell to companies like Reef Breeders who puts their own name on the product. But more recently they have set up OceanRevive as an EverGrow distributor here in the US and in England.

Also, most of these factories use whatever leds they get. Binning and requesting different quality leds is not the norm. Most of these companies want cheap, cheap, cheap! And the difference in cost between cheap leds and good leds in China is almost nothing. Even good quality leds are only a little bit more expensive. There are only a very very few assembly factories that are actually trying to build good quality into their products. Most are just trying to sell more junk! EverGrow is one of the few.

BTW, I don't know who makes the Reefradiance fixtures. But given they sell EverGrow brand and they all look like EverGrow fixtures, I'd say EverGrow is a good bet. But it's just a guess on my part. Maybe they will tell us?

 

[redtop03]

BTW, I don't know who makes the Reefradiance fixtures. But given they sell EverGrow brand and they all look like EverGrow fixtures, I'd say EverGrow is a good bet. But it's just a guess on my part. Maybe they will tell us?

I'm pretty sure they are EverGrow, and they are an excellent light, very well built with a 2 year warranty, plus you can extend the warranty for an additional year for few bucks more, I'm not sure if any of the American made light manufacturer or the DIY LEDs places offer that much warranty...

and in the unlikely even that you have a problem with the Reef Radiance lights, you would ship it back to Rick for servicing or replacing, not to China like you would with most of the Ebay EverGrows....

 

[glamisracers]

i have several reef radiance lights and i love them i have tried other companys and hated it.. the customer service that reef radiance offers is what sold me Rick is the best vendor i have ever delt with and will answer any questions you have and will take care of you from day 1. everyone has there own option but reef radiance is my option for life

 

[chappy]

+1 on reef radiance has to be one of the top customer service companies I have ever dealt with

 

[Ron Reefman]

The one thing that I hold against Reefradiance is the fact that most (maybe all) of their fixtures are so close to a 1:1 ratio of blue to white. Your corals need the blue spectrum. Your eyes want the white spectrum and the corals need only a very little of it to enhance photo synthesis in the zooxanthellae. So you want to run up the blue channel as high as you need to get close to the PAR value you want and then add in just enough white to make the overall color in your tank as white as you want. More white than that will raise the PAR value, but roughly 50% of that PAR is outside what the corals use. And if you are getting enough red spectrum from your white leds, you don't need red leds. And if you don't add red leds, you sure don't need the green either. And to much of that white led spectrum is the biggest part of what causes your coral to bleach. They are getting color spectrum they don't need or like.

I have a custom led layout that is 3:1 blue to white. I run my blues at 90% and only need to run my whites at 40% to get a 12K-14K overall color temperature. And I have a PAR 22" deep of 200-225. If you have a 1:1 ratio you probably don't even need to go all the way to 40% before your tank turns white. And yes, the additional white will raise the overall PAR, but the PUR which is more important to the coral, is only raised by about 50%. Your coral would be better off with a fixture that is 10K overall when both channels are set at equal numbers. And that would probably be a 4:1 ratio of blue to white. So you would have the white sunny day look you want and the corals would be getting 3-4 times the blue they get in a 1:1 ratio. And you could run a lower PAR because more of the light spectrum would be blue which is what makes up most of the PUR that the corals and their zooxanthellae need.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the Reefradiance fixtures are bad, I'm just saying they could be better; provide more PUR and run at lower power and PAR values if they had even a 2:1 or better, a 3:1 blue to white ratio. If they are in fact made by EverGrow, they are very well made. I have been running 3 EverGrow IT series fixtures for 9 months now and my corals are growing as fast, or faster, than they did when I had 1000w of mh and 160w of t5 over the tank. Now I have 200 leds and run them at roughly 312 watts (480w at roughly 65% power = 312w).

 

[REEF RADIANCE]

Hi Ron,

Thanks for your input. I agree that coral need as much of the Actinic Spectrum as you can provide - that is why our new CORAL PRO model - for frag and grow out tanks - is designed with an emphasis on the 410nm - 460 nm part of the visible light spectrum, which is - as you know UV (violet) to deep blue. The short answer to your comment is that your ideas work great for hobbyists who really want to emphasis coral growth over the aesthetics of their tank. I have talked to - and designed custom LEDs for thousands of Reefers since we started in 2009 and resoundingly they do not want the type of light you suggest. We start all of our designs - now on the fifth generation - with two questions - what will maximize coral growth and look good to the person who owns the tank? And after changing our design many times - we have it. We over colored gen 3 and gen 4 and it looked good but took away the opportunity for leds in the white or blue spectrum. So we arrived at our current designe that maximizes the actinic that zooanthallae need to grow and allows for enough white in our dual spectrum band to provide sufficient light to look good to the tank owner and look bright enough to show off your beautiful fish and coral and not look dark.

I am sure your program works and looks great to you - but it is just not what our customers want - or need. That said - if someone wants to change any light spectrum or design we have on our lights - they can do that by letting us know and paying a nominal fee.

HOWEVER I AM GOING TO GO ONE STEP FURTHER AND ALLOW ANYONE WHO WANT TO CHANGE THE LIGHTING LAYOUT OF ANY REEF RADIANCE OR LUMENTEK LIGHT - WE WILL DO THIS UNTIL SUNDAY, SEPTEMBER 15TH FOR NO CHARGE - EXCEPT FOR ANY LEDS OUR FACTORIES CHARGE US MORE FOR AND THEN THE CUSTOMER WILL PAY OUR COST ON ONLY THE LED UPGRADE CHARGE. WE ARE CALLING THIS THE " ronreefman special " and just type that in the comments box on paypal when you check out, and you will get a FREE UPGRADE!

I see a some hobbyists - who have our lights have responded - and that is the overwhelming response we get. If there was a better way to make a light for reefers - it is as easy as an email to our factories. There just is no need to.

 

[REEF RADIANCE]

I see there are several other questions and comments. I will answer those later today.

Keep Reefing!

Rick

 

[shred5]

The one thing that I hold against Reefradiance is the fact that most (maybe all) of their fixtures are so close to a 1:1 ratio of blue to white. Your corals need the blue spectrum. Your eyes want the white spectrum and the corals need only a very little of it to enhance photo synthesis in the zooxanthellae. So you want to run up the blue channel as high as you need to get close to the PAR value you want and then add in just enough white to make the overall color in your tank as white as you want. More white than that will raise the PAR value, but roughly 50% of that PAR is outside what the corals use. And if you are getting enough red spectrum from your white leds, you don't need red leds. And if you don't add red leds, you sure don't need the green either. And to much of that white led spectrum is the biggest part of what causes your coral to bleach. They are getting color spectrum they don't need or like.

I have a custom led layout that is 3:1 blue to white. I run my blues at 90% and only need to run my whites at 40% to get a 12K-14K overall color temperature. And I have a PAR 22" deep of 200-225. If you have a 1:1 ratio you probably don't even need to go all the way to 40% before your tank turns white. And yes, the additional white will raise the overall PAR, but the PUR which is more important to the coral, is only raised by about 50%. Your coral would be better off with a fixture that is 10K overall when both channels are set at equal numbers. And that would probably be a 4:1 ratio of blue to white. So you would have the white sunny day look you want and the corals would be getting 3-4 times the blue they get in a 1:1 ratio. And you could run a lower PAR because more of the light spectrum would be blue which is what makes up most of the PUR that the corals and their zooxanthellae need.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the Reefradiance fixtures are bad, I'm just saying they could be better; provide more PUR and run at lower power and PAR values if they had even a 2:1 or better, a 3:1 blue to white ratio. If they are in fact made by EverGrow, they are very well made. I have been running 3 EverGrow IT series fixtures for 9 months now and my corals are growing as fast, or faster, than they did when I had 1000w of mh and 160w of t5 over the tank. Now I have 200 leds and run them at roughly 312 watts (480w at roughly 65% power = 312w).

I do not agree about this much blue, I have posted this before. It depends on the coral and where they come from on how much blue is needed. Each coral is different on their requirements and where they come from.. Most sps come from shallow water and want a wide spectrum. Most corals can shift and change the color of light they need or use as a sunscreen by producing pigments and proteins. These pigments are what give sps colors. It is not all about photosynthesis or all corals would be brown and grow in about the same area. Corals can manipulate light and this is what lets some corals grow in less light than other or more light.
Pretty much everyone that runs too much blue ends up with browned out corals. People run blue because they like the florescence of the corals which eventually browns them out. Zoanthids and soft corals seem to be ok under these high levels of blues but not sps. most soft corals come from deep enough water and that much blue is fine for them.

If we were only worried about photosynthesis you would be right but there are so many other factors that affect corals.

 

[BfishLpond78]

Hi Ron,

Thanks for your input. I agree that coral need as much of the Actinic Spectrum as you can provide - that is why our new CORAL PRO model - for frag and grow out tanks - is designed with an emphasis on the 410nm - 460 nm part of the visible light spectrum, which is - as you know UV (violet) to deep blue. The short answer to your comment is that your ideas work great for hobbyists who really want to emphasis coral growth over the aesthetics of their tank. I have talked to - and designed custom LEDs for thousands of Reefers since we started in 2009 and resoundingly they do not want the type of light you suggest. We start all of our designs - now on the fifth generation - with two questions - what will maximize coral growth and look good to the person who owns the tank? And after changing our design many times - we have it. We over colored gen 3 and gen 4 and it looked good but took away the opportunity for leds in the white or blue spectrum. So we arrived at our current designe that maximizes the actinic that zooanthallae need to grow and allows for enough white in our dual spectrum band to provide sufficient light to look good to the tank owner and look bright enough to show off your beautiful fish and coral and not look dark.

I am sure your program works and looks great to you - but it is just not what our customers want - or need. That said - if someone wants to change any light spectrum or design we have on our lights - they can do that by letting us know and paying a nominal fee.

HOWEVER I AM GOING TO GO ONE STEP FURTHER AND ALLOW ANYONE WHO WANT TO CHANGE THE LIGHTING LAYOUT OF ANY REEF RADIANCE OR LUMENTEK LIGHT - WE WILL DO THIS UNTIL SUNDAY, SEPTEMBER 15TH FOR NO CHARGE - EXCEPT FOR ANY LEDS OUR FACTORIES CHARGE US MORE FOR AND THEN THE CUSTOMER WILL PAY OUR COST ON ONLY THE LED UPGRADE CHARGE. WE ARE CALLING THIS THE " ronreefman special " and just type that in the comments box on paypal when you check out, and you will get a FREE UPGRADE!

I see a some hobbyists - who have our lights have responded - and that is the overwhelming response we get. If there was a better way to make a light for reefers - it is as easy as an email to our factories. There just is no need to.

This was not my intention when creating the thread, but this is what it is all about. I don't own any reef radiance LED's......yet. But after seeing this type of response and offers to the entire community that kind of service. I am very interested in this Coral Pro Model. I will have to do my research.

Thanks again for the great information.

 

[Reef Breeders Verified Sponsor]

I'm pretty sure they are EverGrow, and they are an excellent light, very well built with a 2 year warranty, plus you can extend the warranty for an additional year for few bucks more, I'm not sure if any of the American made light manufacturer or the DIY LEDs places offer that much warranty...

and in the unlikely even that you have a problem with the Reef Radiance lights, you would ship it back to Rick for servicing or replacing, not to China like you would with most of the Ebay EverGrows....

They are greensun, not evergrow.

 

[REEF RADIANCE]

That's not exactly the way it is. First thing is, Reef Breeders is not a manufacturer, they're a US company and their fixtures are made by EverGrow in China. BTW, EverGrow is one of the very few Chinese factories that builds real quality products and is trying to make a more US like quality product rather than the typical Chinese super cheap junk. OceanRevive is a US based company and is a distributor for EverGrow direct and does EverGrow warranty work as well.

Now lots of Chinese lights look very similar, but they are not all made at the same factory. In fact there are lots and lots of factories in China that make similar looking fixtures. They are all assembly plants. They all buy the metal case from the same stamping plant. Then there are several electronics makers and some different assembly factories may use the same electronics supplier. And there are driver makers, circuit board makers, fan suppliers, led suppliers and so on and so on. So not all Chinese fixtures are the same even if they look very, very similar on the outside.

Example: TaoTronics used to use a terrible fan supplier and they have switched to a new supplier so their fans are better, but I think they still build a cheaper, meaning not as good a quality fixture as EverGrow. EverGrow has been a huge supplier of led fixtures to the greenhouse and plant nursery market and industrial market. The aquarium market is a new venture for them and they don't really care to promote their own product. They are just as happy to sell to companies like Reef Breeders who puts their own name on the product. But more recently they have set up OceanRevive as an EverGrow distributor here in the US and in England.

Also, most of these factories use whatever leds they get. Binning and requesting different quality leds is not the norm. Most of these companies want cheap, cheap, cheap! And the difference in cost between cheap leds and good leds in China is almost nothing. Even good quality leds are only a little bit more expensive. There are only a very very few assembly factories that are actually trying to build good quality into their products. Most are just trying to sell more junk! EverGrow is one of the few.

BTW, I don't know who makes the Reefradiance fixtures. But given they sell EverGrow brand and they all look like EverGrow fixtures, I'd say EverGrow is a good bet. But it's just a guess on my part. Maybe they will tell us?

Hi Ron,

Let me be clear. Evergrow does not manufacture our lights. Not one of them. We sell Evergrow lights under the Evergrow name to keep the distinction clear. I have addressed this issue many times and I can make it simple: Look at the specifics of any light you like - read what people say on the forums about the company and their customer service - and perhaps call the company and get a feel for the people in charge. Then - just like anything else - buy what looks and feels right for you. And if it is Reef Radiance great - and if not - that is okay as well. Rick

 

[Ron Reefman]

Hi Rick,

Thanks for your reply. I appreciate a company that is willing to talk to the buying public. And just to be clear, I didn't say EverGrow made your other lights, I said that it would be a good bet, and I was wrong. But then you didn't just jump out there and tell us who does make your other lights either. I felt that saying it was a good bet that you used EverGrow was a compliment as they have a very good reputation and build very good products, which is probably why you sell them. I don't know if they are made by Greensun either (as suggested by Logan) and I have absolutely no experience with their products.

I agree that the look or color of a fixture is a personal choice. But I fail to understand your concern about customers not getting enough white in their fixtures. With a roughly 1:1 blue to white ratio and the blue channel at 100% power, try this. Start to turn up the white channel until your tank is as white as you like it. I'm guessing you will be at about 20-30% power and if you turn the white power up more, the tank will only get a bit more white at say 30-40%. Maybe I'm guessing a bit low, but I'm close. And I'd be interested in what the actual numbers are if you try it. Adding more white after that isn't changing the overall color temperature of the light, and although it is adding PAR, I don't think it's the best PUR for the coral. The corals would do better if that extra light had more blue in it. And as you are already as white as you can make it, your eyes really aren't going to see any difference.

I have 2 different fixtures from 2 different companies, one is 2:1 blue to white and the other is 3:1 blue to white. I can run the blue channel to 100% power and then start dialing up the white channel and get to a 10K-12K overall white before getting to 50% power on the 2:1 fixture and 60% on the 3:1 fixture. Adding more white doesn't make the tank look ant more white.

I agree that you should do whatever your customers want. You have a very good following here on R2R and your customers seem to like both your products and your customer service. I'm less interested in promoting brands than learning about light, leds, how corals use light and how to make light work for both you and your corals. I'm not an expert in leds or light or coral (heck, I didn't even spend last night in a Holiday Inn Express :wink. I've only been in the hobby for 8 years, I only started using leds about a year ago and have been learning ever since. The science is changing pretty fast and so is the evolution in led technology and our understanding of how it effects our corals.

Ron

 

[redtop03]

on my DM132e lights, I run my blue channel at about 75% and my white channel at about 40% and get what looks like to me my 14k phoenix mh bulbs and they look very nearly as bright as the halides, if I run the white channel up to equal the blue channel, it looks more like a 10k, at equal settings it has a bit more white than I like but it still looks great...what my coral likes best is still yet to be determined though, these are my first LEDs and I still don't understand all the spectrum talk but my coral are still looking and doing great under these lights

 

[JasonFreeland]

If any vendors or manufacturers are looking for input, what I want is a dimmable fixture that is apex controllable and does not include its own controller. I see no point in paying for something I already have and have been waiting for someone to come up with one in the same class as the evergrow stuff.