Reef Foundation A/B/C

[mjlash22]

Was curious for anyone dosing Red Sea's reef foundation A/B/C, if anyone actually doses 1:1 for all 3, and if so what are you basing it off of (I would assume KH)? I may be wrong with my information, but I do not recall ever seing anyone who doses a high amount of Mag. Usually KH and Calc are higher, but even that, not usually the same dose.

Any input would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Even the calcium and alk parts (in the liquid form they sell) are not designed for 1:1 dosing. I think BRS incorrectly claims they are.

https://www.redseafish.com/reef-care-program/reef_foundation_program/reef-foundation-b/
Concentration:
Liquid supplement: 1ml will raise the Alk level of 100 liters (25 gal) by 0.036 meq/l (0.1dKH)

https://www.redseafish.com/reef-care-program/reef_foundation_program/reef-foundation-a/
Concentration:
Liquid supplement: 1ml will raise the Ca level of 100 liters (25 gal) by 2ppm.

2 ppm calcium is not correctly balanced 1:1 by 0.036 meq/L.

A correct balance is closer to:

2 ppm calcium is correctly balanced 1:1 by 0.1-0.11 meq/L (exact values depends on extent of magnesium incorporation)


The magnesium part is not close to 1:1 dosing with the other parts. It's more like 1/5 to 1/10 of the calcium part

https://www.redseafish.com/reef-care-program/reef_foundation_program/reef-foundation-c/
Concentration:
Liquid supplement: 1ml will raise the Mg level of 100 liters (25 gal) by 1ppm.

 

[HolisticBear]

Was curious for anyone dosing Red Sea's reef foundation A/B/C, if anyone actually doses 1:1 for all 3, and if so what are you basing it off of (I would assume KH)? I may be wrong with my information, but I do not recall ever seing anyone who doses a high amount of Mag. Usually KH and Calc are higher, but even that, not usually the same dose.

Any input would be greatly appreciated!

I'm pretty confident you don't dose them equally. It's not a balling solution. Red Sea expects you to test all three and dose each bottle independently. The Red Sea Colors (A/B/C/D) are based off your Calcium dose. Their assumption is that trace element consumption roughly corresponds to Calcium (not Alk) consumption.

The fact that's it's 7 part dosing vs 3 part (Tropic Marin, AF) or 4 part (Triton) makes it less popular.

 

[mjlash22]

Even the calcium and alk parts (in the liquid form they sell) are not designed for 1:1 dosing. I think BRS incorrectly claims they are.

https://www.redseafish.com/reef-care-program/reef_foundation_program/reef-foundation-b/
Concentration:
Liquid supplement: 1ml will raise the Alk level of 100 liters (25 gal) by 0.036 meq/l (0.1dKH)

https://www.redseafish.com/reef-care-program/reef_foundation_program/reef-foundation-a/
Concentration:
Liquid supplement: 1ml will raise the Ca level of 100 liters (25 gal) by 2ppm.

2 ppm calcium is not correctly balanced 1:1 by 0.036 meq/L.

A correct balance is closer to:

2 ppm calcium is correctly balanced 1:1 by 0.1-0.11 meq/L (exact values depends on extent of magnesium incorporation)


The magnesium part is not close to 1:1 dosing with the other parts. It's more like 1/5 to 1/10 of the calcium part

https://www.redseafish.com/reef-care-program/reef_foundation_program/reef-foundation-c/
Concentration:
Liquid supplement: 1ml will raise the Mg level of 100 liters (25 gal) by 1ppm.

Thank you for the insight and information!

I'm pretty confident you don't dose them equally. It's not a balling solution. Red Sea expects you to test all three and dose each bottle independently. The Red Sea Colors (A/B/C/D) are based off your Calcium dose. Their assumption is that trace element consumption roughly corresponds to Calcium (not Alk) consumption.

The fact that's it's 7 part dosing vs 3 part (Tropic Marin, AF) or 4 part (Triton) makes it less popular.

Link to tropic marin? And assuming AF is aquaforest?

 

[HolisticBear]

Link to tropic marin? And assuming AF is aquaforest?

Tropic Marin has their original balling and balling lite products, while AquaForest has component 1-2-3. There are also various 2 part solutions, and Triton's 4 part. I just meant all those are designed to be dosed equally, while Red Seas are not.

Not recommending one over the other

 

[GoVols]

Tropic Marin has their original balling and balling lite products, while AquaForest has component 1-2-3. There are also various 2 part solutions, and Triton's 4 part. I just meant all those are designed to be dosed equally, while Red Seas are not.

Not recommending one over the other

I know that if you mix Red Sea's alk to their specs. it's more deluded than their liquid alk.
So, If your mixing the Red Sea products it's takes more of part B than part A on an daily consumption

 

[SPR1968]

I use all of the Red Sea foundation elements A B and C and certainly in my system they are dosed in completely different amounts, and most of all B Alkalinity albeit the mixing ratios in liquid may affect how much goes in. For example the Akalinity B mixes at 1kg per 10 litres of RODI.

I hardly dose any C (Mg) at all as enough comes from water changes, which is always on the high side and just as a guide for a 650 litre system fully stocked reef my daily dosing is:

A - Calcium. 1.6ppm per day
B - Alkalinity 0.06 dKH per day
C - Magnesium 0 ppm per day

There is also the ABC+ skeletal elements which you dose for all 3 for smaller systems but even that you still need to adjust individual elements from time to time.

 

[GoVols]

There is also the ABC+ skeletal elements which you dose for all 3 for smaller systems but even that you still need to adjust individual elements from time to time.

Ran the above with Red Sea "colors" C & D for an year and it's a great product ;Singing ;Singing ;Singing

Need to test all of the Big-3 a lot, to make sure they're staying imbalance.

Holding a total of 80 gallons of water after displacement

 

[mjlash22]

Ran the above with Red Sea "colors" C & D for an year and it's a great product ;Singing ;Singing ;Singing

Need to test all of the Big-3 a lot, to make sure they're staying imbalance.

Holding a total of 80 gallons of water after displacement

Was there a reason you only dosed the colors C and D and not all 4?

 

[HolisticBear]

Was there a reason you only dosed the colors C and D and not all 4?

That's the power of the ABC+ Power. It contains Alk/Ca/Mg & Colors A/B, in a single product. If you add in Colors C/D, then you've shortened Red Sea's 7 product lines down to 3.

I ran it for awhile and liked it, but got tired of manual dosing. That's the achilles heel of the current Red Sea Product line [manual or 7 dosing heads]

 

[mjlash22]

That's the power of the ABC+ Power. It contains Alk/Ca/Mg & Colors A/B, in a single product. If you add in Colors C/D, then you've shorted Red Sea's 7 product lines down to 3.

I ran it for awhile and liked it, but got tired of manual dosing. That's the achilles heel of the current Red Sea Product line [manual or 7 dosing heads]

So the ABC+ product is not able to be dosed through a pump? I haven't looked that much into it but usually the powder line is mixed with RO/DI water and can be then transferred into a dosing container/used through a pump.

 

[GoVols]

So the ABC+ product is not able to be dosed through a pump? I haven't looked that much into it but usually the powder line is mixed with RO/DI water and can be then transferred into a dosing container/used through a pump.

You have to dose the ABC+ as it is, in the form of power, otherwise it will precipitate.

I did contact Red Sea and they tried to figure away to automate the dosing of the ABC+ in their lab, but it's a fine power that compacts real tight and humidity can effect the automation too.

It is a wonderful Red Sea product and if I could have been able to automate it (precisely) for the long haul, then I would have stayed with that product. You can automate the "Colors" C & D with dosing pumps.

I did convert over to a cal reactor (for automation), but the ABC+ was more cost effective than my C02 tank refills.

 

[HolisticBear]

if I could have been able to automate it (precisely) for the long haul, then I would have stayed with that product.

Same here. In my case, for automation I switched to Triton Other Methods with a four head doser

 

[GoVols]

Same here. In my case, for automation I switched to Triton Other Methods with a four head doser

Well,
The weak link is automation with that product. I hoped that Red Sea had away to do it, but they were honest and advised not to try to automate it.

It was a fun year with the ABC+ with colors C & D and there are times that I still miss dosing it.

It truly gives great results and the most cost effective method that I've ever used.

 

[mjlash22]

You have to dose the ABC+ as it is, in the form of power, otherwise it will precipitate.

I did contact Red Sea and they tried to figure away to automate the dosing of the ABC+ in their lab, but it's a fine power that compacts real tight and humidity can effect the automation too.

It is a wonderful Red Sea product and if I could have been able to automate it (precisely) for the long haul, then I would have stayed with that product. You can automate the "Colors" C & D with dosing pumps.

I did convert over to a cal reactor (for automation), but the ABC+ was more cost effective than my C02 tank refills.

Same here. In my case, for automation I switched to Triton Other Methods with a four head doser

Well,
The weak link is automation with that product. I hoped that Red Sea had away to do it, but they were honest and advised not to try to automate it.

It was a fun year with the ABC+ with colors C & D and there are times that I still miss dosing it.

It truly gives great results and the most cost effective method that I've ever used.

Thanks for all the insight guys! I like the appeal and strategy behind Triton, but I have two concerns with it. Availability seems to be limited (goes out of stock a lot) and I also dose NoPox from Red Sea and have no idea if that would work with or have any effect on the Triton method. I don't currenty have a refugium set up and use the NoPox for my phosphate/nitrate reduction.

 

[SPR1968]

I’ve never auto dosed the Red Sea Coral Colours as I dose based on Calcium uptake as per the instructions and basically just add around 5ml of each once a week with a pipette. It only takes a minute.

When I first started out I read that an overdose could be ‘very bad’ so I’ve just never hooked it up to an auto doser just in case. Also the daily amounts would be minimal.

The ABC+ is good, but because you need to test and keep everything in balance, I find using the individual A B and C better and very simple because once you set up the auto doser and fine tune your daily usage of each, it very simple to control and I just make weekly tweeks to the dose of each as required.

 

[GoVols]

I’ve never auto dosed the Red Sea Coral Colours as I dose based on Calcium uptake as per the instructions and basically just add around 5ml of each once a week with a pipette. It only takes a minute.

When I first started out I read that an overdose could be ‘very bad’ so I’ve just never hooked it up to an auto doser just in case. Also the daily amounts would be minimal.

The ABC+ is good, but because you need to test and keep everything in balance, I find using the individual A B and C better and very simple because once you set up the auto doser and fine tune your daily usage of each, it very simple to control and I just make weekly tweeks to the dose of each as required.

Shaun,
I agree and back then I was doing a lot of testing. I did come to find a daily dose, but I needed to bump back up the alk about every two weeks to keep it balance.

Also, I was preforming 1/2 doses of the Red Sea colors to the calcium intake, to play it safe.
Dosing trace elements in between water changes does make a difference, but proceed with caution...

 

[GoVols]

Thanks for all the insight guys! I like the appeal and strategy behind Triton, but I have two concerns with it. Availability seems to be limited (goes out of stock a lot) and I also dose NoPox from Red Sea and have no idea if that would work with or have any effect on the Triton method. I don't currenty have a refugium set up and use the NoPox for my phosphate/nitrate reduction.

I think @HolisticBear and @justingraham uses NoPox with Triton.

Guys,
You got any feedback for @mjlash22 ?

 

[justingraham]

Yea not me I tried it out but it didn’t work for me the way I thought it would so I stopped it gave me cyno and dropped my phosphate to zero and did nothing to my nitrate plus it’s another thing to dose another thing to check for and I just don’t care anymore about low nitrate or phosphate to many good aquarist have high phosphate and nitrate

When I stopped dosing and caring and I did nothing my nitrate dropped down to five and phosphate to .03 I only run carbon no phosban and I feed the same amount everyday three home made ice cubes (that have every lrs blend in it) two spins of the AFS and a fingertip full of love black worms also dose 4 ml of acropower everyday and my Skimmer and refugium keeps my parameters in check

No phosphate or nitrate I found to be way worse then high phosphate and nitrate

and no coral really cares about to high of phosphate nitrate is my thought I’ve seen plenty of my Corals stn from no phosphate tho

Once I stopped caring about a certain parameter level is when my tank naturally got there by itself

Triton gives you the answers all u have to do is follow them once I stopped thinking I knew more and just listened my tank started to be more constant

 

[mjlash22]

Yea not me I tried it out but it didn’t work for me the way I thought it would so I stopped it gave me cyno and dropped my phosphate to zero and did nothing to my nitrate plus it’s another thing to dose another thing to check for and I just don’t care anymore about low nitrate or phosphate to many good aquarist have high phosphate and nitrate

When I stopped dosing and caring and I did nothing my nitrate dropped down to five and phosphate to .03 I only run carbon no phosban and I feed the same amount everyday three home made ice cubes (that have every lrs blend in it) two spins of the AFS and a fingertip full of love black worms also dose 4 ml of acropower everyday and my Skimmer and refugium keeps my parameters in check

No phosphate or nitrate I found to be way worse then high phosphate and nitrate

and no coral really cares about to high of phosphate nitrate is my thought I’ve seen plenty of my Corals stn from no phosphate tho

Once I stopped caring about a certain parameter level is when my tank naturally got there by itself

Triton gives you the answers all u have to do is follow them once I stopped thinking I knew more and just listened my tank started to be more constant

Thank you for the insight and advice. I'm at that point now. I am getting consistent 0 readings for my nitrate and phosphate tests. Im even dosing under the recommended amount for NoPox (5ml/day for a ~130g total volume tank). Recommended amount is close to 10ml/day. Only reason I dropped the amount was becasue my skimmer was going crazy.

Good advice though and a thought process I will look into changing. Currently tweaking the dose and trying to get readable amounts of nitrate/phosphate before adding corals.