Reef Life Support System help for African cichlid modification

[Africancichlidkeeper]

So I am not a reef keeper. However, you all have some of the most sofisticated life support systems in the hobby and I’m hoping someone here can help or point me in the right direction. I care for Malawi African Cichlids and I’m working on a migration to a +250 gallon tank. Before I do I want to map out the life support system and equipment required to ensure I get some automation in place before I put the +2000 pound aquarium down in the man cave. So here is a couple of things I was thinking:

- going to move from canisters to a sump
- want to automate waterchanges, thinking genesis reef renew
- need a controller put in place for better parameter measuring via probes, thinking Neptune
- I buffer my water to get the right PH, KH, and GH for the biotope and add trace elements to get as close as I can to the actual lake, I think this is kind of like saltwater mixing stations I’ve seen but do t know much about

So questions for you all. I am having a horrible time finding info in a consolidated manner on each piece of a reef lss can anyone break down a full system for me or point me to some material? And, as you all automate your care and maintenance anything else I should be thinking about that you find useful in the reef hobby, even if it may not apply would love to hear about it?

 

[Brew12]

Welcome to Reef2Reef! I'm not a fresh water guy, but I think I may be able to answer some of your questions.

I buffer my water to get the right PH, KH, and GH for the biotope and add trace elements to get as close as I can to the actual lake, I think this is kind of like saltwater mixing stations I’ve seen but do t know much about

For the saltwater mixing stations most people use food grade containers from someplace like Farm and Fleet. The smallest I've seen is around 35g and they go up to hundreds of gallons. Andy food grade container will work. One difference in how we use them is that all we worry about is specific gravity. We trust the salt mix will give the water the parameters we are looking for. Hardly anyone does testing beyond the specific gravity. All of our measuring and dosing are done inside the display tank system. If I understand it correctly, once your water is added to your tank it is pretty much set.

need a controller put in place for better parameter measuring via probes, thinking Neptune

I have used both the Neptune Apex and GHL Profilux and there are pro's and con's with each. It all depends on how you want to use them and what your level of comfort is in programming. Odds are that pH and temperature are going to be the only useful monitoring information you will get from either.​

So questions for you all. I am having a horrible time finding info in a consolidated manner on each piece of a reef lss can anyone break down a full system for me or point me to some material?

I'm not aware of any consolidated "one size fits all" system you could use. Reefers tend to have very strong opinions on certain brands and products so they want to hand pick what they use.

And, as you all automate your care and maintenance anything else I should be thinking about that you find useful in the reef hobby, even if it may not apply would love to hear about it?

Very little maintenance in a reef tank is automated outside of dosing and water changes. The only other one is having an auto top off system to make up for evaporation. Some alkalinity monitors have come to market but I'm not sure that too many people use them for anything but monitoring. Pretty risky to turn over alkalinity control to a new product when it can damage coral systems quickly if it malfunctions.

 

[Africancichlidkeeper]

Welcome to Reef2Reef! I'm not a fresh water guy, but I think I may be able to answer some of your questions.


For the saltwater mixing stations most people use food grade containers from someplace like Farm and Fleet. The smallest I've seen is around 35g and they go up to hundreds of gallons. Andy food grade container will work. One difference in how we use them is that all we worry about is specific gravity. We trust the salt mix will give the water the parameters we are looking for. Hardly anyone does testing beyond the specific gravity. All of our measuring and dosing are done inside the display tank system. If I understand it correctly, once your water is added to your tank it is pretty much set.
[\QUOTE]

That’s correct. I bring the water to the appropriate PH, KH, and GH before it enters the tank so that I do not see any swings in parameters once it is introduced. Hats kind of my thought behind creating a mixing station. Seems it would be similar to salt mixing but I’d test a few other parameters rather than specific gravity. I think the mixing station would allow
Me to create a big batch of water to use with the Genesis Reef System Renee WC System to spread out the +100 gallon water change during a week as well. In the mixing stations do you all add the salt on a daily/weekly basis tot he mixing tank or has their been automation for adding the specific amount of salt to the mix?

I have used both the Neptune Apex and GHL Profilux and there are pro's and con's with each. It all depends on how you want to use them and what your level of comfort is in programming. Odds are that pH and temperature are going to be the only useful monitoring information you will get from either.[\QUOTE]​

I’ve been looking pretty heavy at the Neptune. Tell me more about programming? I hadn’t read that anywhere but I do know a few languages myself so wouldn’t be a far stretch to learn something new. I figure I can test Ph, temperature, and ORP ( which from what I gather, and I could be wrong, measures total dissolved solids?), additionally I could remove the set of controllers I have specifically for lights and temperature. I would like to consider ATO and the Genesis Reef System Renee automates Water Change system here as well.

I'm not aware of any consolidated "one size fits all" system you could use. Reefers tend to have very strong opinions on certain brands and products so they want to hand pick what they use.

Yeah, I get that. I guess I’m trying to sort out where I find the different brands of equipment used so I can understand it a bit better. Honestly, not exactly sure where to look and other than a sump not exactly sure what everything is used for with out considerable additional research. Is there a online catalog or website that is a good reference for equipment?

Very little maintenance in a reef tank is automated outside of dosing and water changes. The only other one is having an auto top off system to make up for evaporation. Some alkalinity monitors have come to market but I'm not sure that too many people use them for anything but monitoring. Pretty risky to turn over alkalinity control to a new product when it can damage coral systems quickly if it malfunctions.

Dosing I could do for trace elements that get added twice a week directly to tank so that’s something to consider. But yeah I get you just wondering if there is anything I had not thought about yet.

Thank you for your response.

 

[Brew12]

Hope you don't mind my using some moderator functions to answer your questions. Your post has a strange glitch so I can't get it to show correctly but hopefully this helps.

That’s correct. I bring the water to the appropriate PH, KH, and GH before it enters the tank so that I do not see any swings in parameters once it is introduced. Hats kind of my thought behind creating a mixing station. Seems it would be similar to salt mixing but I’d test a few other parameters rather than specific gravity. I think the mixing station would allow
Me to create a big batch of water to use with the Genesis Reef System Renee WC System to spread out the +100 gallon water change during a week as well. In the mixing stations do you all add the salt on a daily/weekly basis tot he mixing tank or has their been automation for adding the specific amount of salt to the mix?

I think your concept of a mixing station would work very well for your intended use. Most of us use a 2 tank system. One for RODI water and one for salt water. When the salt water tank is close to empty we fill it from the RODI tank and mix it appropriately. Then we make more RODI. I'm not familiar with the Genesis Reef System but there are multiple ways of doing it. Lots of systems available, and you can also DIY it using an aquarium controller. We do not normally automate adding the salt.

I’ve been looking pretty heavy at the Neptune. Tell me more about programming? I hadn’t read that anywhere but I do know a few languages myself so wouldn’t be a far stretch to learn something new. I figure I can test Ph, temperature, and ORP ( which from what I gather, and I could be wrong, measures total dissolved solids?), additionally I could remove the set of controllers I have specifically for lights and temperature. I would like to consider ATO and the Genesis Reef System Renee automates Water Change system here as well.

The programming in both the Apex and Profilux is pretty straight forward. The Apex is more intuitively obvious but I find the Profilux to be a bit more powerful. The Apex definitely has the better web interface. ORP is a measure of oxygen radicals and is of limited value. You could possibly use a salinity probe since that does work by measuring dissolved solids but you would have convert the results yourself. Now that I'm thinking about it, the Profilux may have this as an option. One thing to remember is that salinity probes are expensive and don't last long. I had one but haven't replaced it when it died.
There are nice ATO systems that are stand alone. The Apex also has an off the shelf ATO add on. With the Profilux you would need to order the individual parts. Not sure how the Reef System would integrate.
If your lights use a typical 0-10V interface you could integrate them with any controller. All the controllers also do a better job monitoring temperature than stand alone controllers imo.

Yeah, I get that. I guess I’m trying to sort out where I find the different brands of equipment used so I can understand it a bit better. Honestly, not exactly sure where to look and other than a sump not exactly sure what everything is used for with out considerable additional research. Is there a online catalog or website that is a good reference for equipment?

Dosing I could do for trace elements that get added twice a week directly to tank so that’s something to consider. But yeah I get you just wondering if there is anything I had not thought about yet.

Thank you for your response.

I find the Bulk Reef Supply website to be very well laid out as far as equipment goes.
I would have a harder time justifying the cost of the dosers if I only dosed twice a week. I have 5 dosers set up to add chemicals to my tank. The one that runs the least doses 7ml ever morning. The one that runs the most doses 20mL 70 times a day. That is pretty extreme. The more typical usage is the two I have that dose 4.7ml 12 times a day.

 

[Brew12]

Oh... and if you use a computer for R2R highlight the section and you should see a + Quote/Reply option. If you select the + Quote you can save as many as you want. When you create a new post use the insert quote function. You can select which order they appear in. Hope that helps!

 

[Africancichlidkeeper]

Oh... and if you use a computer for R2R highlight the section and you should see a + Quote/Reply option. If you select the + Quote you can save as many as you want. When you create a new post use the insert quote function. You can select which order they appear in. Hope that helps!

Thanks that was what I was trying to do and was thinking it was a bit like java so input my own ends to the quotes, which definitely came out all glitchy.

Hope you don't mind my using some moderator functions to answer your questions. Your post has a strange glitch so I can't get it to show correctly but hopefully this helps.


I think your concept of a mixing station would work very well for your intended use. Most of us use a 2 tank system. One for RODI water and one for salt water. When the salt water tank is close to empty we fill it from the RODI tank and mix it appropriately. Then we make more RODI. I'm not familiar with the Genesis Reef System but there are multiple ways of doing it. Lots of systems available, and you can also DIY it using an aquarium controller. We do not normally automate adding the salt.


The programming in both the Apex and Profilux is pretty straight forward. The Apex is more intuitively obvious but I find the Profilux to be a bit more powerful. The Apex definitely has the better web interface. ORP is a measure of oxygen radicals and is of limited value. You could possibly use a salinity probe since that does work by measuring dissolved solids but you would have convert the results yourself. Now that I'm thinking about it, the Profilux may have this as an option. One thing to remember is that salinity probes are expensive and don't last long. I had one but haven't replaced it when it died.
There are nice ATO systems that are stand alone. The Apex also has an off the shelf ATO add on. With the Profilux you would need to order the individual parts. Not sure how the Reef System would integrate.
If your lights use a typical 0-10V interface you could integrate them with any controller. All the controllers also do a better job monitoring temperature than stand alone controllers imo.


I find the Bulk Reef Supply website to be very well laid out as far as equipment goes.
I would have a harder time justifying the cost of the dosers if I only dosed twice a week. I have 5 dosers set up to add chemicals to my tank. The one that runs the least doses 7ml ever morning. The one that runs the most doses 20mL 70 times a day. That is pretty extreme. The more typical usage is the two I have that dose 4.7ml 12 times a day.

Thank you for correcting my garbage reply.

Great information and thanks for the help. I guess my last question would be for something like the apex are there any great places to learn what people have done? I guess videos on you tube would probably work any channel on YouTube you all consider to be the example for product and build videos?

 

[Brew12]

Thanks that was what I was trying to do and was thinking it was a bit like java so input my own ends to the quotes, which definitely came out all glitchy.

It happens. Normally I can go in and edit them to get them to show correctly but for some reason it kept restoring what I was trying to remove. Ah well.

Great information and thanks for the help. I guess my last question would be for something like the apex are there any great places to learn what people have done? I guess videos on you tube would probably work any channel on YouTube you all consider to be the example for product and build videos?

I'm not much of a YouTube person but I am sure there are a ton of videos on how people use their Apex's. There is probably a little less info on the Profilux since they are more European and haven't been active in the states as long. Both companies have forum sections here on R2R and are normally pretty responsive.

 

[Africancichlidkeeper]

It happens. Normally I can go in and edit them to get them to show correctly but for some reason it kept restoring what I was trying to remove. Ah well.


I'm not much of a YouTube person but I am sure there are a ton of videos on how people use their Apex's. There is probably a little less info on the Profilux since they are more European and haven't been active in the states as long. Both companies have forum sections here on R2R and are normally pretty responsive.

Thanks really appreciate the help!