Reef moonshiners... do I need it?

[DIYreefer]

Hi everyone,

I recently sent in an icp-ms test and the results came back pretty good for all major elements. However, my tank is nutrient and trace element deficient. I've already started feeding heavier (felt like I was already doing so, but evidently not heavy enough) and have bumped no3 up to 4 (Hannah checker). Polyp extension on my acros us noticeably better already.

My question is whether or not I should go full blown moonshiners or not? Colors on my acros are already pretty good, but growth has been lacking for most of them. Hence the reason why I did the icp test. I'm posting this here because the tank in question is acropora dominant and the acros are basically my only concern in the tank. Everything else is growing like a weed.

Here's the results from my icp. For those of you with first hand experience, please let me know what you think. Thank you!!





Fwiw, I plan to start adding a drop or two of lugols once a week to increase iodine (system is roughly 160g total water volume) and will send in another icp in a month or so to see where that's at.

 

[Troylee]

Water changes Or just start using all for reef and skip all the icp testing… both work great!

 

[anthonymckay]

Many people report a lot of great results with moonshiners. Some people don't think the juice is worth the squeeze... it's not cheap. Personally I like the ability to fine tune everything and have been doing moonshiners for about a year now.

 

[jda]

No, nobody needs it. Some people like it.

There have been many similar approaches over the three decades that I have been in the hobby and they all have a cycle of new => promising => cannot live without them => didn't really need them. They all come and go. In a decade, Moonshiners will likely be a punchline and something else will be the new hot way to dose and run a tank.

 

[anthonymckay]

No, nobody needs it. Some people like it.

There have been many similar approaches over the three decades that I have been in the hobby and they all have a cycle of new => promising => cannot live without them => didn't really need them. They all come and go. In a decade, Moonshiners will likely be a punchline and something else will be the new hot way to dose and run a tank.

That's a bit of an over simplification I think. Technology in the reefing hobby has come a long way, as has our understanding of the chemistry/science behind keeping corals healthy. Reefers by and large are far more successful today than they were 2 decades ago. Or rather, it's much easier today to have a successful healthy tank than it was 2 decades ago.

I think individual testing and dosing of elements is moving the needle in the right direction, because individual tanks uptake needed elements at different rates. But is every single element that moonshiners provides important? Probably not? Can you have a successful tank without moonshiners? Absolutely.

 

[areefer01]

No, nobody needs it. Some people like it.

There have been many similar approaches over the three decades that I have been in the hobby and they all have a cycle of new => promising => cannot live without them => didn't really need them. They all come and go. In a decade, Moonshiners will likely be a punchline and something else will be the new hot way to dose and run a tank.

DSR has been around a very long time.

Do you need any of them? No. Some people just like to feel like they are doing something I guess or it is another way to do the hobby.

 

[Js.Aqua.Project]

That's a bit of an over simplification I think. Technology in the reefing hobby has come a long way, as has our understanding of the chemistry/science behind keeping corals healthy. Reefers by and large are far more successful today than they were 2 decades ago. Or rather, it's much easier today to have a successful healthy tank than it was 2 decades ago.

I think individual testing and dosing of elements is moving the needle in the right direction, because individual tanks uptake needed elements at different rates. But is every single element that moonshiners provides important? Probably not? Can you have a successful tank without moonshiners? Absolutely.

Sometimes an oversimplification helps to illustrate the point.

For example, while Triton is definitely still around, I don't see nearly the number of Triton Method posts/tanks as there were years ago.

This would follow the statement @jda made about the cycle.

Yes, ICP tests are moving the needle but also aren't needed and are still very much questioned on their accuracy.

It is just very easy for companies to say "my/our technique works, here it is wrapped with a bow, keep buying my/our products and your tank will look mine/ours". It is like trying to be an AIO except for chemistry not the tank.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

I get the impression your corals are happy and doing well. That should be the deciding factor IMO, not icp results.

 

[areefer01]

Sometimes an oversimplification helps to illustrate the point.

For example, while Triton is definitely still around, I don't see nearly the number of Triton Method posts/tanks as there were years ago.

This would follow the statement @jda made about the cycle.

Yes, ICP tests are moving the needle but also aren't needed and are still very much questioned on their accuracy.

It is just very easy for companies to say "my/our technique works, here it is wrapped with a bow, keep buying my/our products and your tank will look mine/ours". It is like trying to be an AIO except for chemistry not the tank.

Actually one of the challenges this hobby faces is social media content. How much of the display is due to the product vs photograph skills vs lighting vs layout vs hobbyist skill?

 

[Fish Styx]

@Stang67

 

[KStatefan]

My question is whether or not I should go full blown moonshiners or not?

No you do not need it. You will have to decide if you want to start it.

People that like it will say yes and those that do not will say no.

You can get the spreadsheet and enter your ICP numbers and see what it would take to start it.

 

[shakacuz]

your decision to use it or not. it has its uses, where other things can do the same (water changes, triton, ati methods, etc)

i started the RMS method because i chose not to do water changes for lack of space, and the undesirable task of having to have water ready/matched to your tank weekly/bi-weekly for the water changes. also, i found that over time when dosing all for reef before switching to RMS, i had certain trace elements extremely high on my ICP tests while it did nothing to my ALK consumption (likely was dosing wrongly, but i don't believe so. likely could've also been due to not doing WC's). been on the shine for roughly 2yrs. my only complaint is the upfront costs in elements, but i have some bottles which aren't even half way.

 

[d2mini]

There's debate on what minor elements are actually necessary for our home reefs.
Randy has talked some on this.

Me personally, I'd just rather have everything where it should be (or close to it) and ReefMoonshiners allows me to do so. Andre is also very good at being transparent about his products, updating them as research evolves, etc.

There are other ways to attempt to keep elements around NSW levels, but RM is the only one that I know of that allows you to tweak each element individually.

There's a FB group that is very helpful if you have questions.

 

[jda]

In time, no method can overcome the building number of who have quit and report no changes. When added to the people who never started and have great tanks, people leave. Folks figure out that it was more likely their increased skill, tank maturity, etc drove the increased success. This had already started with Moonshiners.

Adapting can help. DSR has adapted over the decades.

 

[djf91]

That's a bit of an over simplification I think. Technology in the reefing hobby has come a long way, as has our understanding of the chemistry/science behind keeping corals healthy. Reefers by and large are far more successful today than they were 2 decades ago. Or rather, it's much easier today to have a successful healthy tank than it was 2 decades ago.

More successful now? I feel like tanks by and large have regressed compared to the 2000’s.

 

[DIYreefer]

More successful now? I feel like tanks by and large have regressed compared to the 2000’s.

For the most part, I agree. Of course there are some amazing tanks today, but it just seems like there were a lot more tanks jam packed with huge acro colonies 10 years ago than there are now. I have my thoughts on that, but that's a topic for another discussion.

I'd like to thank all of you that took the time out of your day to post here. I do apprecaite your contributions. There's some valid points made in favor of both sides of the debate. That stated, my corals seem to be trending in the right direction right now so I think I will hold off on making any additional changes.... for now.

I just needed to feed more, who would have thought? Lol.

 

[shakacuz]

I just needed to feed more, who would have thought? Lol.

heavy in, heavy out.

tried and true method!

 

[DIYreefer]

heavy in, heavy out.

tried and true method!

If it ain't broke...