Reef moonshiners program

IKD · May 11, 2023

thatmanMIKEson said:
is there two different test options for ATI?

There is ICP-OES and a newer ICP-MS. Apparently ICP-MS is much more accurate. Some reefing sites sell the MS as a single test for $65, but I found going to this site it was half the price (I haven’t used them though)

Water Testing

We do ICP analysis on all types of water. We test for 50+ elements and provide results as low as 10 ppt

www.icp-analysis.com

hunterallen40 · May 11, 2023

IKD said:
There is ICP-OES and a newer ICP-MS. Apparently ICP-MS is much more accurate. Some reefing sites sell the MS as a single test for $65, but I found going to this site it was half the price (I haven’t used them though)

Water Testing

We do ICP analysis on all types of water. We test for 50+ elements and provide results as low as 10 ppt

www.icp-analysis.com

That test is not supported by the moonshiner method.

Supported tests include ATI, Triton, and Oceamo. Of these, the only one offering ICP-MS is Oceamo (to my knowledge).

That test may be found here: https://andremueller.e-junkie.com/product/1758008/Reef-Moonshiner26230393Bs-ICP-MS-Test

minus9 · May 11, 2023

OutColdCRNA said:
Is there a reason to choose one ati test over the other?

ATI only offers one test version that I’m aware of, but other companies offer a different type of ICP. The skeptic in me isn’t convinced that the other types of ICP is more accurate than the other. Having to pay more doesn’t mean it’s more accurate than the others? You can join the FB group and see if there’s more info there about the difference in ICP testing.

IKD · May 11, 2023

hunterallen40 said:
That test is not supported by the moonshiner method.

Supported tests include ATI, Triton, and Oceamo. Of these, the only one offering ICP-MS is Oceamo (to my knowledge).

That test may be found here: https://andremueller.e-junkie.com/product/1758008/Reef-Moonshiner26230393Bs-ICP-MS-Test

What is the difference between ICP ICP-MS and the Oceamo ICP-MS test? Does one cover more elements? There’s not much description in either.

OutColdCRNA · May 11, 2023

There are two different tests on the website. Not sure on which one the shiners are using.

Lasse · May 11, 2023

I have been using both test from Oceamo - both the normal ICP and ICP MS and also Triton ICP for (Oceamo´s for nearly 3 years and Triton for more than 7 years). I´m pleased with all three tests.

It is very important to note that Oceamo´s tests (both of them) include both real test of nitrate and nitrite with a method there nitrate is analyzed with a no nitrite sensitive method. and a photometric analyze of phosphate along with the normal ICP-OES test of pure phosphorous (0.2 µm filtrate. hence most bacteria is gone from the sample) . (ICP-MS do not report any P test - only the dissolved phosphorous as PO4) I normally use Oceamo or Triton´s normal ICP-OES tests and the more expensive ICP-MS from Oceamo now an then for fine adjustments of the ultra low trace elements

Here is my two last tests - first a ICP-MS test and after that a ICP-OES test

The latest ICP-OES. I have adjust my Potassium level, my PO4 level and NO3 level during the time between the tests

Sincerely Lasse

minus9 · May 11, 2023

OutColdCRNA said:
There are two different tests on the website. Not sure on which one the shiners are using.

I'm still using ATI, as I can pick them up locally for $45, these come with a hefty shipping fee (I believe), so not quite worth the extra cost to me.

shakacuz · May 11, 2023

minus9 said:
I'm still using ATI, as I can pick them up locally for $45, these come with a hefty shipping fee (I believe), so not quite worth the extra cost to me.

i agree, that the shipping from andre is a bit much, but he does it with the idea that the moonshiners buy in bulk as most of the elements he has for us tend to last us quite some time other than flourish and maybe one or two other elements.

i buy my test kits 2 at a time so when i send the 2nd i buy another 2. the shipping (in my case) is worth it since i’ve gotten my results back quicker than using the previous standard ICP.

Randy Holmes-Farley · May 11, 2023

IKD said:
There is ICP-OES and a newer ICP-MS. Apparently ICP-MS is much more accurate. Some reefing sites sell the MS as a single test for $65, but I found going to this site it was half the price (I haven’t used them though)

Water Testing

We do ICP analysis on all types of water. We test for 50+ elements and provide results as low as 10 ppt

www.icp-analysis.com

I would be careful about saying it is more accurate. It is often more sensitive to low levels of certain ions, but that does not necessarily make it is more accurate for anything within the detection limits of ICP-OES.

I'd also advise that procedures are not plug and play, and ICP companies need to work out appropriate methods. I do not have equal confidence in all companies currently selling the service.

Randy Holmes-Farley · May 11, 2023

Lasse said:
I have been using both test from Oceamo - both the normal ICP and ICP MS and also Triton ICP for (Oceamo´s for nearly 3 years and Triton for more than 7 years). I´m pleased with all three tests.

FWIW, I too have confidence that these folks know what they are doing.

Randy Holmes-Farley · May 11, 2023

IKD said:
What is the difference between ICP ICP-MS and the Oceamo ICP-MS test? Does one cover more elements? There’s not much description in either.

Oceamo uses multiple methods and discusses what they are used for here:

Oceamo | Blick in unser Labor

Wir einen Blick in das Oceamo-Labor: Profesionelle Meerwasser-Analytik mit ausführlicher beratung zu einem fairen Preis

www.oceamo.com

IKD · May 11, 2023

is Moonshiners page the only way to purchase Oceamo in the States?

thatmanMIKEson · May 11, 2023

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
FWIW, I too have confidence that these folks know what they are doing.

worth more than you know

KStatefan · May 11, 2023

IKD said:
is Moonshiners page the only way to purchase Oceamo in the States?

They used to be available from AquaBiomics.

Randy Holmes-Farley · May 12, 2023

IKD said:
is Moonshiners page the only way to purchase Oceamo in the States?

Christoph is the principle behind oceamo (as far as I understand) and he would know.

@Christoph

Christoph · May 15, 2023

Hello everyone,

for conducting oceamo analyses in the United States you can choose the Reef Monnshiner testkits (we are the contract laboratory). Usually turnaround is fast (in the range of 5-9 days).

Also Aquabiomics has Oceamo testkits available, but the turnaround is slower (since there are less frequent sample shipments back to our lab).

Let me know if you are having further questions!

All the best, Christoph

Christoph · May 15, 2023

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
FWIW, I too have confidence that these folks know what they are doing.

Thank you!

IKD · May 15, 2023

Christoph said:
Hello everyone,

for conducting oceamo analyses in the United States you can choose the Reef Monnshiner testkits (we are the contract laboratory). Usually turnaround is fast (in the range of 5-9 days).

Also Aquabiomics has Oceamo testkits available, but the turnaround is slower (since there are less frequent sample shipments back to our lab).

Let me know if you are having further questions!

All the best, Christoph

Thanks! I couldn’t find the test kit on Aquabiomics. For Reef Moonshiners, the test is $65 but shipping is another $17, which seems really high for mailing a test.

minus9 · May 15, 2023

IKD said:
Thanks! I couldn’t find the test kit on Aquabiomics. For Reef Moonshiners, the test is $65 but shipping is another $17, which seems really high for mailing a test.

Yeah, I have the same reaction. So the only way to even it out is to buy some refills of elements and add the test kit, but I don't buy elements that often, so it's still pricey for shipping. I know USPS has flat rate boxes and padded envelopes for half that, so I'm not sure why Andre doesn't offer it for the test kits? I'll have to check out the FB group and see if he posted something there about it?

IKD · May 15, 2023

minus9 said:
Yeah, I have the same reaction. So the only way to even it out is to buy some refills of elements and add the test kit, but I don't buy elements that often, so it's still pricey for shipping. I know USPS has flat rate boxes and padded envelopes for half that, so I'm not sure why Andre doesn't offer it for the test kits? I'll have to check out the FB group and see if he posted something there about it?

If you find anything let me know! I can’t swallow a $17 shipping price.