Reef Octopus VarioS-8 - Flow vs Height test results

[Monkeynaut]

I'm going to have a chat with my electrical engineer colleague tonight about it a bit. I wouldn't think the off and/or high voltage could cause damage to the pump internals but I will talk with him about it nonetheless.

I would definitely follow with what you said earlier as well. There is no debating your testing unless they make you do five gallons or something just for more accuracy ( but it would be hard to be that far off, even doing just 1 gallon). I bet the variable frequency drive or inverter/rectifier or whatever they do in the power controller is messed up.

 

[mcarroll]

My only guess is the transition coupling from the 1.25in pump exit to the 2in pipe created turbulence loss. That and somethings wrong with my hardware.

I'm betting hardware. Seems like that coupling would have to have a burr in it the size of a Turbo snail to be the cause.

Oh and what I work with to pay for the hobby:

THAT would generate some tank flow!!!

I'm going to have a chat with my electrical engineer colleague tonight about it a bit. I wouldn't think the off and/or high voltage could cause damage to the pump internals but I will talk with him about it nonetheless.

Heat. Potentially very bad for the motor casing. Any current in the water? (Seems like you'd feel it, but maybe measure?)

@Brew12 any thoughts?

 

[Skep18]

Well it sounds like everything appears normal and is as advertised. I'm told the tests I'm performing are only a visual representation of the flow and the DC nature will appear this way but the volume claims should still be correct. At least that is what I think I understood.

Overall I'm very happy CoralVue got back to me. I'm very open to being incorrect in my understanding of this. In fact I'm biased to the tune of $375 in wanting the pump to be in good working order and able to provide the advertised flow in my tank.

I wasn't planning on it but pending CoralVue's agreement that it'll be a accurate value, I think I'll get a Neptune FMK to get some numbers the industry will accept as sound. To be honest, I didn't think counting volume per unit time was contraversial but if there's one thing I've learned in my profession it's any time you're convinced your 100% correct, that's when you're often proven wrong.

It'll probably be a few weeks or so but hopefully I will update this thread with FMK numbers in the near future.

 

[ksed]

Interesting comments but not sure I understand it. Lol

 

[Joe Grubbs]

It'll probably be a few weeks or so but hopefully I will update this thread with FMK numbers in the near future.

Recently, I installed one of the '-8s' as my return pump. Though I am using 1" PVC with a 1" FMK. My flow is less than expected, coming in around 670 gph (my expectation was a number north of 750gph as the pump I replaced ran in that area). I'll be watching to see what results you get from your FMK installation.

 

[Monkeynaut]

Well it sounds like everything appears normal and is as advertised. I'm told the tests I'm performing are only a visual representation of the flow.

To be honest, I didn't think counting volume per unit time was contraversial.

They want you to density compensate the flow or something [emoji25]. I don’t see any issues with your test.

It'll probably be a few weeks or so but hopefully I will update this thread with FMK numbers in the near future.

I recommend the 2 inch flow monitor.
I thought I remembered reading somewhere the 1 inch pinches down to 3/4 inches internally.
I am pretty sure BRS is using the 1 inch flow monitor but they are doing it with a $1500 Abyzz which as I understand it, can pump against extreme head pressures. When I was making all my plumbing adjustments, in the initial stages, I gained a 100 to 200 gph just by switching from 1 inch flow monitor to the 2 inch.

 

[Skep18]

Recently, I installed one of the '-8s' as my return pump. Though I am using 1" PVC with a 1" FMK. My flow is less than expected, coming in around 670 gph (my expectation was a number north of 750gph as the pump I replaced ran in that area). I'll be watching to see what results you get from your FMK installation.

In further discussions, there may be some concern as to the FMK precision. No one was trying to discredit any vendor but, yea ...

I've got a ~2700gph Jebao DC pump coming in the mail. I'll put it on the same hardware and see if it looks different. Nothing definitive or at least defensible but for common comparison, it should at least be in the same ball park.

I'm contemplating other tests or text vendors to check it out.

I also not completely at ease with the power supply. It's possible it's an ungoverned unit (I think, if I understand it all). It just seems odd the VarioS-6 power supply acts completely different ...

 

[Skep18]

They want you to density compensate the flow or something [emoji25]. I don’t see any issues with your test.



I recommend the 2 inch flow monitor.
I thought I remembered reading somewhere the 1 inch pinches down to 3/4 inches internally.
I am pretty sure BRS is using the 1 inch flow monitor but they are doing it with a $1500 Abyzz which as I understand it, can pump against extreme head pressures. When I was making all my plumbing adjustments, in the initial stages, I gained a 100 to 200 gph just by switching from 1 inch flow monitor to the 2 inch.

Yea, i pretty confident in my tests also. The claim that the pump needs 1ft of overhead water pressure in the sump I don't think makes sense. Also, how physically counting how many seconds it takes to fill a gallon is inaccurate kinda baffles me. It's possible the whole industry just BS's flow ratings also. Dunno. We'll find out.

 

[mcarroll]

I'd trust my own volume/time calc every day of the week. Not that it's impossible to do volume/time wrong, but I'd trust that more than a flow meter, IMO.

Without naming names, DC pump makers have been flagged on here by more than one user for fudging flow curves, so your experience seems believable to me.

Classic AC brands have had dependable flow curves out for years....decades in many cases. A QuietOne with a sweet warranty to replace what you have would only run you <$100. Maybe a lot <.

Head pressure is calculated from the TOP of the reservoir water to the TOP of your plumbing outlet as far as I know, FYI.

 

[ksed]

Yea, i pretty confident in my tests also. The claim that the pump needs 1ft of overhead water pressure in the sump I don't think makes sense. Also, how physically counting how many seconds it takes to fill a gallon is inaccurate kinda baffles me. It's possible the whole industry just crap's flow ratings also. Dunno. We'll find out.

I don’t know how credible the source was but someone here , I believe did a test with the Jebao and it pumped 30ft as advertised. When new that is.

 

[mcarroll]

From another thread...

After reading about DC pumps losing flow over time (Varios) or randomly changing flow (Vectra) leading to fluctuating sump levels and overflow noise, I’ve decided to go with an AC return pump for reliability and consistency, specifically the Fluval SP2. I’ll keep my DC Tunze 1073.05 as my back up.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/varios-6-losing-flow.406202/

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/fix-my-return-pump-problem.403880/

 

[Skep18]

From another thread...

Thanks for the info.

I'm finishing up some tank setup work but I'll definitely be returning to this.

 

[wangspeed]

I like the 2” Neptune flow sensor, but make sure to change it in the FMM module to the 2” sensor, otherwise the reading will be wrong. Here are my Varios8 pumps. The return is on setting 2. The loop pump has 0 head pressure and is on a setting of 1 plus a partially closed valve to keep UV effective.

 

[Monkeynaut]

I probably should have mentioned this as well.
I began with a Jebao DC pump rated for the 1300gph I wanted. But I didn’t understand the pipe sizing and piping bends affect on back pressure.

The Jebao was extremely loud with the wining noise. I then bout a M1 Vectra. It too was weak and unable to pump without noise on 1” pipe. I then changed a few fittings and was still dissatisfied. I went to the Varios and saw gains. I went to the 1 1/4” piping and I was happy.

As for the DC pump failure over time. My flow is unchanged. I never adjust my overflow main siphon valve.

 

[Forsaken77]

I'd trust my own volume/time calc every day of the week. Not that it's impossible to do volume/time wrong, but I'd trust that more than a flow meter, IMO.

Without naming names, DC pump makers have been flagged on here by more than one user for fudging flow curves, so your experience seems believable to me.

Classic AC brands have had dependable flow curves out for years....decades in many cases. A QuietOne with a sweet warranty to replace what you have would only run you <$100. Maybe a lot <.

Head pressure is calculated from the TOP of the reservoir water to the TOP of your plumbing outlet as far as I know, FYI.

Don't know if you've gotten a Quiet-One pump recently, but the Pro version (the newer one) is anything but quiet.

I had a regular 4000 in my rodi reservoir (the 44 Brute) with no fittings, facing straight up to agitate the water. It started making a cranking sound. I replaced it with a 4000 Pro and it was making the cranking sound out of the box. It's not air or anything. May just be bad luck, or how I'm using it, but it's definitely not something I would put in a display. Maybe the Fluval everybody raves about?

 

[KStatefan]

Well it sounds like everything appears normal and is as advertised. I'm told the tests I'm performing are only a visual representation of the flow and the DC nature will appear this way but the volume claims should still be correct. At least that is what I think I understood.

Overall I'm very happy CoralVue got back to me. I'm very open to being incorrect in my understanding of this. In fact I'm biased to the tune of $375 in wanting the pump to be in good working order and able to provide the advertised flow in my tank.

I wasn't planning on it but pending CoralVue's agreement that it'll be a accurate value, I think I'll get a Neptune FMK to get some numbers the industry will accept as sound. To be honest, I didn't think counting volume per unit time was contraversial but if there's one thing I've learned in my profession it's any time you're convinced your 100% correct, that's when you're often proven wrong.

It'll probably be a few weeks or so but hopefully I will update this thread with FMK numbers in the near future.

It will be interesting to see those results but not sure how a bucket and stop watch is only a visual representation of the flow.

 

[KStatefan]

I'd trust my own volume/time calc every day of the week. Not that it's impossible to do volume/time wrong, but I'd trust that more than a flow meter, IMO.

Without naming names, DC pump makers have been flagged on here by more than one user for fudging flow curves, so your experience seems believable to me.

Classic AC brands have had dependable flow curves out for years....decades in many cases. A QuietOne with a sweet warranty to replace what you have would only run you <$100. Maybe a lot <.

Head pressure is calculated from the TOP of the reservoir water to the TOP of your plumbing outlet as far as I know, FYI.

I would think a volume/time or weight/time calculation is what you would use to calibrate a flow meter.

I do not understand why any pump is on the market without a flow curve. How do you design a system without that information?

 

[Skep18]

I like the 2” Neptune flow sensor, but make sure to change it in the FMM module to the 2” sensor, otherwise the reading will be wrong. Here are my Varios8 pumps. The return is on setting 2. The loop pump has 0 head pressure and is on a setting of 1 plus a partially closed valve to keep UV effective.

Good info. I definitely believe the claim that DC pumps aren't good with had pressure. If you trust the Neptune FMK, (lol, not sure why someone wouldn't, at least to be close) this supports that. That said, my results definitely seem exaggerated...

Maybe I can do a test at 1ft. But then again, I guess flow in gallons per hour can't be measured by counting the gallons output in an hour.

It will be interesting to see those results but not sure how a bucket and stop watch is only a visual representation of the flow.

Likewise.

I'm finishing my rock scape then back to this.

 

[Skep18]

Thanks for an the replies everyone. Surprisingly for such a popular pump there's pretty little online postings or videos for them.

If anyone has a Varios pump and can film their return flowing above a water line, I'd be infinitely in debted to you! This would help me physically compare the flows.

 

[ksed]

Good info. I definitely believe the claim that DC pumps aren't good with had pressure. If you trust the Neptune FMK, (lol, not sure why someone wouldn't, at least to be close) this supports that. That said, my results definitely seem exaggerated...

Maybe I can do a test at 1ft. But then again, I guess flow in gallons per hour can't be measured by counting the gallons output in an hour.



Likewise.

I'm finishing my rock scape then back to this.

That would be a great idea. Try one at 1 ft and then another at say 4ft