Reef pH

[Brandon McHenry]

Hey guys.
I wanted to start a thread about the ideal reef pH. Ive been thinking a lot about it lately and from a scientific point of view it would seem that the general trend of settling for the low pH that many tanks have is not healthy for our reefs. In terms of calcification, it has been proven that our corals calcify much slower in lower pH conditions. I was hoping to see where the rest of the SPS community fell on this topic.

Some good information to discuss would be:
1. What is your current pH?
2. Would you like it to be higher?
3. How large are your colonies?
4. How is the growth on your pieces?
5. How much do you feed your tank/how many fish do you have?

I hope many of you join in on this topic and are as interested in it as I am

 

[Mandrew]

I'm curious as well

 

[Brandon McHenry]

I'm curious as well

Awesome! I really hope this turns out to be an informative and productive thread.

 

[redfishbluefish]

Here's my two cents. There is much ado about nothing. The only bad guy with pH is CO2 (assuming tank chemistry is right). If you have a CO2 problem, than you have a pH problem. Cure CO2, and pH is just fine. I think too many folks make a big stink about pH and try to chase slight changes. Many people have very successful tanks at pH of 7.8. Otherwise, you're like a politician, focusing on a non problems and making a big stink about it.

One last note, calibrate your pH probe.....and if you're using a kit to measure pH, it's wrong! Have I said enough?

Sorry for being so curt.

 

[Brandon McHenry]

Wow. Had no idea we'd be starting out so negative. But hey, everybody is entitled to their own opinion. Many pH problems do stem from CO2 issues and that is partly what I was hoping to address throughout this thread. And I would have to respectfully disagree about pH being no big issue. Otherwise there wouldn't be such a huge concern over the global pH of the ocean. Trust me I am the furthest thing from a politician. I am a science major focusing on marine biology and I would have to say that I personally believe pH is worth discussing. While many people do have successful tanks at a 7.8 pH that doesn't mean that there is not stress being put on the animals. It is possible to combat the effects of low pH, one being providing sufficient nutrients to overcome such challenges. However, thats not to say that many tanks wouldn't benefit from running a more natural pH. In regards to probes versus kits, I completely agree that a calibrated probe is superior to a test kit but that is not to say that test kits don't have their place. To completely rule out test kits by saying they are wrong is quite absurd.

 

[hatrix11]

Is keeping a steady 7.8-7.9 ph "better" than a swinging 7.9-8.4 in say a 24 hour period?

 

[Salao22]

My ph

 

[Brandon McHenry]

Is keeping a steady 7.8-7.9 ph "better" than a swinging 7.9-8.4 in say a 24 hour period?

Of course stability is key. A swing in half a pH unit is much more than it lets on. That would be a five fold change between those two values. However, could we all not strive to have a stable 8.2-8.3 as opposed to 7.8-7.9? That is what I'm hoping for at least.

 

[happyhourhero]

I dont even check mine or worry about it. As long as i keep everything going like I always do and everything looks happy and growing, I dont worry about it. I feel like chasing PH causes more problems than it's worth.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

IMO, reef tanks seem to do fine as long as the low end of the pH range does not drop below pH 7.8. Would they grow faster at higher pH? Maybe. Some probably would. Would they be healthier? Maybe. I discuss these issues here:

pH And The Reef Aquarium
http://www.reefedition.com/ph-and-the-reef-aquarium/


FWIW, there appears to be more data coming out that recently corals in the wild are more resilient than those in lab tests. Whether a reef tank looks more like a natural reef or a lab test is hard to say.

Coral reefs defy ocean acidification odds in Palau
http://www.nsf.gov/news/news_summ.jsp?cntn_id=135261
from it:
"Contrary to laboratory findings," says Garrison, "it appears that the major effect of ocean acidification on Palau Rock Island corals is increased bio-erosion rather than direct effects on coral species."


Self-regulating coral protect themselves against ocean acidification
http://phys.org/news/2015-10-self-regulating-coral-ocean-acidification.html
from it:

"
Lead author of the study from UWA's ARC Centre of Excellence for Coral Reef Studies Lucy Georgiou said the team found that the reservoir of calcifying fluid allowed Porites cylindrica to continue to grow, even under relatively low pH conditions.

"The regulatory mechanism allows the coral to grow at a relatively constant rate, suggesting it may be more resilient to the effects of ocean acidification than previously thought," she said."

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I dont even check mine or worry about it. As long as i keep everything going like I always do and everything looks happy and growing, I dont worry about it. I feel like chasing PH causes more problems than it's worth.

I agree it may not be necessary, but it also should not cause problems unless you do it improperly.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Is keeping a steady 7.8-7.9 ph "better" than a swinging 7.9-8.4 in say a 24 hour period?

IMO, no, it is not better to be lower but steady. I don't believe "steady" is any real benefit with respect to diurnal pH, except with respect to the extremes encountered not being too extreme.

 

[Brandon McHenry]

I dont even check mine or worry about it. As long as i keep everything going like I always do and everything looks happy and growing, I dont worry about it. I feel like chasing PH causes more problems than it's worth.

I guess that depends on what your pH actually is. In reality if your pH is constantly over 8 that is different than if it was constantly say 7.8. I think there is a lot to be said for achieving a higher pH if it is done correctly. I myself have never achieved a higher pH but I would like to. That, in part, is why I created this thread, to see how people view pH and how they change it, if they change it.

 

[Brandon McHenry]

IMO, reef tanks seem to do fine as long as the low end of the pH range does not drop below pH 7.8. Would they grow faster at higher pH? Maybe. Some probably would. Would they be healthier? Maybe. I discuss these issues here:

pH And The Reef Aquarium
http://www.reefedition.com/ph-and-the-reef-aquarium/


FWIW, there appears to be more data coming out that recently corals in the wild are more resilient than those in lab tests. Whether a reef tank looks more like a natural reef or a lab test is hard to say.

Coral reefs defy ocean acidification odds in Palau
http://www.nsf.gov/news/news_summ.jsp?cntn_id=135261
from it:
"Contrary to laboratory findings," says Garrison, "it appears that the major effect of ocean acidification on Palau Rock Island corals is increased bio-erosion rather than direct effects on coral species."


Self-regulating coral protect themselves against ocean acidification
http://phys.org/news/2015-10-self-regulating-coral-ocean-acidification.html
from it:

"
Lead author of the study from UWA's ARC Centre of Excellence for Coral Reef Studies Lucy Georgiou said the team found that the reservoir of calcifying fluid allowed Porites cylindrica to continue to grow, even under relatively low pH conditions.

"The regulatory mechanism allows the coral to grow at a relatively constant rate, suggesting it may be more resilient to the effects of ocean acidification than previously thought," she said."

These are very interesting thoughts and thank you for contributing with actual scientific research, I really appreciate it. I have also read your article on pH as well as the one you wrote regarding low pH in the aquarium and they are both informative and interesting. So you seem to be of the belief that pH is okay as long as it is above 7.8? This has always been counterintuitive to me. Not to say that my tank has a high pH, because I definitely struggle with a low pH, but I couldn't help but wonder if raising my pH would be beneficial to my reef. It seems like all SPS keepers strive for the ideal conditions for their tanks in regards to so many parameters but it seems that pH gets left behind and forgotten. If you want to optimize your system, why leave out one parameter that would seem to have a significant impact.

I have also done my fair share of reading scientific articles regarding ocean acidification, and while wild corals are most certainly more resilient their laboratory counterparts, I have still found evidence that excess atmospheric CO2 is causing issues in wild corals. There was a core sample taken of a Siderastrea colony in Florida that showed a significant decrease in calcification rates over the past few hundred years. There was also an experiment done that initially showed that some wild species were resisting the change in atmospheric CO2, but when placed under preindustrial CO2 levels, calcification increased dramatically, implying that the major change in calcification rates has already occurred making it appear that the corals are resisting the change.

I know I may seem like I am emphasizing a problem, but Id rather understand what is going on and prepare for what could happen until either we come up with a solution or decide that it was never a big deal.

 

[happyhourhero]

I guess that depends on what your pH actually is. In reality if your pH is constantly over 8 that is different than if it was constantly say 7.8. I think there is a lot to be said for achieving a higher pH if it is done correctly. I myself have never achieved a higher pH but I would like to. That, in part, is why I created this thread, to see how people view pH and how they change it, if they change it.

I should have added that I drip Limewater almost constantly so my ph is fairly stable. The problems I was referring to is when people who are new start chasing PH and using lfs bought buffers without taking into account the affects on other parameters like Alk.

 

[Brandon McHenry]

I should have added that I drip Limewater almost constantly so my ph is fairly stable. The problems I was referring to is when people who are new start chasing PH and using lfs bought buffers without taking into account the affects on other parameters like Alk.

With the use of daily limewater I would assume your pH is stable above 8 which in my opinion is a much better situation than those who keep it below 8. And I absolutely agree about chasing pH with buffers, they can be seriously dangerous if done wrong.