reef-pi :: An opensource reef tank controller based on Raspberry Pi.

[sector9]

Constantly changing and updating the housing design as I go the ability to so easily change and print out the design is both a blessing and a curse haha

I have now printed out V2 of my Reef-Pi power board after I made a list of issues with V1. The biggest issue I had was that outlets were mounted on the top of the housing and the relay and other electronics on the bottom of the housing. This made it really difficult to wire up as I either had a heap of excess wire I had to squeeze in, or I wasn't able to open the housing without undoing half of the wiring.

V2 has all the electronics (outlets, 5V supply and relays) on the top of the housing and the bottom is essentially just a lid that nothing mounts to and can be removed easily for access.

Looking back I can also see how much I'll have dialed in my printer

The new designs will be uploaded to Thingiverse soon.

Today I went and got some 2.5mm wire and other supplies so I plan to get this wired up in the next couple of days.

Dang this looks amazing Macca! Nice work. Looking forward to the thingiverse update as the new logo is even better than the last

 

[MaccaPopEye]

Can you elaborate on the safety upgrades needed please? I've not been following the 3D printers until I got on this post for the reef-pi builds a couple weeks ago.

Re reading the review I wrote I have missed 2 quite crucial safety upgrades, I must have missed them as I was too focused on cost and these are both essentially free.

1 - probably the most important upgrade: software. The Anet A8 comes with thermal runway protection turned off. This means that if the hot end or the heat bed start heating up and don't stop the software won't care and won't turn off the power and if the elements keep heating up non stop for a long time they can catch fire. Marlin is a free 3D printer software that most open source printers already use. It can be downloaded and easily flashed the the printers main board, and you can use it to enable thermal runaway protection, this halts the printer if it senses any issues with the hot end or heat bed - very important!

2 - strain relief. As the heat bed moves back and forth the wires heating it get tugged and pulled all over the place. It is really important to print out and add a strain relief to the heat bed plug to stop it from moving otherwise it can create arcing and high resistance points in the plug and start a fire.

The rest of the safety upgrades I have just copied below from the review I linked:

Safety.
The Anet A8 is a cheap printer kit and has gotten a pretty bad rep for being a "fire hazard". When it comes down to it, the printer is a cheap Chinese made kit with cost savings everywhere possible to make it as cheap as possible. But with just 4 recommended upgrades (that are all cheap and easy) to ensure the printer is safe, I don't believe it is any more dangerous than any other 3D printer on the market.

- The power supply. The printer comes with a 20A power supply however it is very poorly made, combine that with the fact that at times the printer can draw close to the 20A maximum and it isn't particularly safe. A good 30A power supply can be found to replace the stock one for as little as $30AUD.

- A fused AC switch. The printer power supply gets wired directly to the AC mains power cord, this means that to turn the printer off you need to constantly unplug the printer. A switch can be wired in before the power supply so that it can be easily turned on and off and even better is a switch with a built in fuse as an added safety measure. A fused AC switch is usually less than $2AUD.

- New heat bed plug. The stock heat bed plug has 6 available pins, but only uses 4 (2 control wires and 2 power wires), each pin is rated to 10A, but the bed can pull up to 13A while heating up. To fix this you can just replace the JST plug with one that uses all 6 pins so the current is distributed between the pins. A new plug that is already wired up using all 6 pins is only $15AUD.

- MOSFET. The main board has inbuilt MOSFETs that are more than up to the job, but the terminals that you screw the heat bed power wires into on the main board are also only rated to 10A. As I said above the bed can draw a bit more than that, so to fix this an external MOSFET can be easily added to take the high current heat bed wires off of the main board. These are only $5AUD.

If you are considering this printer (or any other cheap printer kit) I would recommend you just include these upgrades in the original price. That would mean my Anet A8 cost $270AUD which really is still very affordable for a 3D printer.

 

[ScottBrew]

Re reading the review I wrote I have missed 2 quite crucial safety upgrades, I must have missed them as I was too focused on cost and these are both essentially free.

1 - probably the most important upgrade: software. The Anet A8 comes with thermal runway protection turned off. This means that if the hot end or the heat bed start heating up and don't stop the software won't care and won't turn off the power and if the elements keep heating up non stop for a long time they can catch fire. Marlin is a free 3D printer software that most open source printers already use. It can be downloaded and easily flashed the the printers main board, and you can use it to enable thermal runaway protection, this halts the printer if it senses any issues with the hot end or heat bed - very important!

2 - strain relief. As the heat bed moves back and forth the wires heating it get tugged and pulled all over the place. It is really important to print out and add a strain relief to the heat bed plug to stop it from moving otherwise it can create arcing and high resistance points in the plug and start a fire.

The rest of the safety upgrades I have just copied below from the review I linked:

Safety.
The Anet A8 is a cheap printer kit and has gotten a pretty bad rep for being a "fire hazard". When it comes down to it, the printer is a cheap Chinese made kit with cost savings everywhere possible to make it as cheap as possible. But with just 4 recommended upgrades (that are all cheap and easy) to ensure the printer is safe, I don't believe it is any more dangerous than any other 3D printer on the market.

- The power supply. The printer comes with a 20A power supply however it is very poorly made, combine that with the fact that at times the printer can draw close to the 20A maximum and it isn't particularly safe. A good 30A power supply can be found to replace the stock one for as little as $30AUD.

- A fused AC switch. The printer power supply gets wired directly to the AC mains power cord, this means that to turn the printer off you need to constantly unplug the printer. A switch can be wired in before the power supply so that it can be easily turned on and off and even better is a switch with a built in fuse as an added safety measure. A fused AC switch is usually less than $2AUD.

- New heat bed plug. The stock heat bed plug has 6 available pins, but only uses 4 (2 control wires and 2 power wires), each pin is rated to 10A, but the bed can pull up to 13A while heating up. To fix this you can just replace the JST plug with one that uses all 6 pins so the current is distributed between the pins. A new plug that is already wired up using all 6 pins is only $15AUD.

- MOSFET. The main board has inbuilt MOSFETs that are more than up to the job, but the terminals that you screw the heat bed power wires into on the main board are also only rated to 10A. As I said above the bed can draw a bit more than that, so to fix this an external MOSFET can be easily added to take the high current heat bed wires off of the main board. These are only $5AUD.

If you are considering this printer (or any other cheap printer kit) I would recommend you just include these upgrades in the original price. That would mean my Anet A8 cost $270AUD which really is still very affordable for a 3D printer.

Thank you for the detailed reply! A lot of good info there on the possible gotcha's on these lesser expensive machines, especially for someone with no experience with them. Would you consider these easy to break down for storage?

 

[Ranjib]

Re reading the review I wrote I have missed 2 quite crucial safety upgrades, I must have missed them as I was too focused on cost and these are both essentially free.

1 - probably the most important upgrade: software. The Anet A8 comes with thermal runway protection turned off. This means that if the hot end or the heat bed start heating up and don't stop the software won't care and won't turn off the power and if the elements keep heating up non stop for a long time they can catch fire. Marlin is a free 3D printer software that most open source printers already use. It can be downloaded and easily flashed the the printers main board, and you can use it to enable thermal runaway protection, this halts the printer if it senses any issues with the hot end or heat bed - very important!

2 - strain relief. As the heat bed moves back and forth the wires heating it get tugged and pulled all over the place. It is really important to print out and add a strain relief to the heat bed plug to stop it from moving otherwise it can create arcing and high resistance points in the plug and start a fire.

The rest of the safety upgrades I have just copied below from the review I linked:

Safety.
The Anet A8 is a cheap printer kit and has gotten a pretty bad rep for being a "fire hazard". When it comes down to it, the printer is a cheap Chinese made kit with cost savings everywhere possible to make it as cheap as possible. But with just 4 recommended upgrades (that are all cheap and easy) to ensure the printer is safe, I don't believe it is any more dangerous than any other 3D printer on the market.

- The power supply. The printer comes with a 20A power supply however it is very poorly made, combine that with the fact that at times the printer can draw close to the 20A maximum and it isn't particularly safe. A good 30A power supply can be found to replace the stock one for as little as $30AUD.

- A fused AC switch. The printer power supply gets wired directly to the AC mains power cord, this means that to turn the printer off you need to constantly unplug the printer. A switch can be wired in before the power supply so that it can be easily turned on and off and even better is a switch with a built in fuse as an added safety measure. A fused AC switch is usually less than $2AUD.

- New heat bed plug. The stock heat bed plug has 6 available pins, but only uses 4 (2 control wires and 2 power wires), each pin is rated to 10A, but the bed can pull up to 13A while heating up. To fix this you can just replace the JST plug with one that uses all 6 pins so the current is distributed between the pins. A new plug that is already wired up using all 6 pins is only $15AUD.

- MOSFET. The main board has inbuilt MOSFETs that are more than up to the job, but the terminals that you screw the heat bed power wires into on the main board are also only rated to 10A. As I said above the bed can draw a bit more than that, so to fix this an external MOSFET can be easily added to take the high current heat bed wires off of the main board. These are only $5AUD.

If you are considering this printer (or any other cheap printer kit) I would recommend you just include these upgrades in the original price. That would mean my Anet A8 cost $270AUD which really is still very affordable for a 3D printer.

There are so many gold nuggest right here ... I really appreciate all the inputs you give us around 3d printing. I am going to get one.. sooner or later . I am writing these down. I am think how much space I should reserve..

 

[Erica-Renee]

There are so many gold nuggest right here ... I really appreciate all the inputs you give us around 3d printing. I am going to get one.. sooner or later . I am writing these down. I am think how much space I should reserve..

From what i am reading the anet8 which is what he has is a clone of some of the other printers (FIRST VERSIONS) Where they made some mistakes . the newer models 200 + price range appears to have addressed these issues . The ender model seems to be what the others copy and EVERY part its made of seems to be available easily. .. But i agree Its GREAT information and spot on from reviews i have read .

 

[Michael Lane]

@Ranjib I think I have found a bug in the macro tab. If I make multiple macros and then delete one, all the macros below the one deleted move one title and the last macro's instructions get deleted. For instance, if I have 3 macros made, named macro 1, macro 2 and macro 3 in that order from the top. I delete macro 1, the title gets deleted but the instructions for macro 1 are still there but now are titled macro 2, macro 2 instructions are now titled macro 3 and macro 3 instructions disappear altogether. Hope that makes sense?

Thanks for reporting this behavior.
I thought I had fixed this a few weeks ago. The updates were included in 2.0.0-rc2. Can you confirm which version you are running? Are you able to reproduce the issue on http://reef-pi.herokuapp.com?

 

[ScottBrew]

Thanks for reporting this behavior.
I thought I had fixed this a few weeks ago. The updates were included in 2.0.0-rc2. Can you confirm which version you are running? Are you able to reproduce the issue on http://reef-pi.herokuapp.com?

I'm running rc1. I'll update my software.

 

[MaccaPopEye]

Thank you for the detailed reply! A lot of good info there on the possible gotcha's on these lesser expensive machines, especially for someone with no experience with them. Would you consider these easy to break down for storage?

No worries, with some time and effort you can definitely get quite decent print quality out of the really cheap ones, but at the $200 mark there is such good value for money now with machines that dont need copious upgrades to be safe.

I would say the Anet A8 would not be easy to pack up for storage, the frame is fragile and IMO once its built it's best to just find a place for it and leave it set up. I think some of the aluminum frame printers you might be able to disassemble the upper frame in one piece to store them, but I'm not sure.

There are so many gold nuggest right here ... I really appreciate all the inputs you give us around 3d printing. I am going to get one.. sooner or later . I am writing these down. I am think how much space I should reserve..

Ive only had the printer for just under a year now but I'm more than happy to share what I have learned over the last few months

Ikea lack tables are only a couple of dollars each, they are 55cm cubed and they are a perfect size for printers that have a build volume of 220mm x 220mm. A lot of people use 1, 2 or 3 of them stacked together to store their printer(s) and you can even put sides on them to make an enclosure to make printing ABS easier. I'll try and remember to get a photo of mine later (it's still a work in progress) but essentially all the space you need is 55cm x 55cm of floor space to store the printer, filament and misc spare parts

From what i am reading the anet8 which is what he has is a clone of some of the other printers (FIRST VERSIONS) Where they made some mistakes . the newer models 200 + price range appears to have addressed these issues . The ender model seems to be what the others copy and EVERY part its made of seems to be available easily. .. But i agree Its GREAT information and spot on from reviews i have read .

Yeah pretty much, it's a Prusa i3 clone (as are almost all printers of a similar design that isn't actually a Prusa). The Prusa itself came from an open source project as well

Even the Ender 3 is a clone of a clone but it was one of the first to bring a good build volume and a sturdy aluminum frame to the low budget $200 price range. Before that most aluminium frame i3 clones were around the $500 mark. But since the Ender 3 came out a lot of manufacturers have been bringing out great aluminum frame budget printers to compete, some like the Anet E10 (I think it is) look good but still have a fair few issues, where as others like the Geeetech A10 seem to be getting even better reviews than the Ender 3. Either way both Creality and Geeetech have been getting good reviews as companies who stand by their products.

There is a lot on the market and it makes it hard to find the best one, but the competition is great for consumers! I just wish this competition to get quality printers into the budget price bracket started year ago!

If anyone has any other non Reef-Pi related 3D printing questions, there is a couple of great 3D printing threads on Reef2Reef with lots of friendly 3D printing reefers to answer questions so that this thread doesnt get detailed too much

 

[Ranjib]

No worries, with some time and effort you can definitely get quite decent print quality out of the really cheap ones, but at the $200 mark there is such good value for money now with machines that dont need copious upgrades to be safe.

I would say the Anet A8 would not be easy to pack up for storage, the frame is fragile and IMO once its built it's best to just find a place for it and leave it set up. I think some of the aluminum frame printers you might be able to disassemble the upper frame in one piece to store them, but I'm not sure.


Ive only had the printer for just under a year now but I'm more than happy to share what I have learned over the last few months

Ikea lack tables are only a couple of dollars each, they are 55cm cubed and they are a perfect size for printers that have a build volume of 220mm x 220mm. A lot of people use 1, 2 or 3 of them stacked together to store their printer(s) and you can even put sides on them to make an enclosure to make printing ABS easier. I'll try and remember to get a photo of mine later (it's still a work in progress) but essentially all the space you need is 55cm x 55cm of floor space to store the printer, filament and misc spare parts


Yeah pretty much, it's a Prusa i3 clone (as are almost all printers of a similar design that isn't actually a Prusa). The Prusa itself came from an open source project as well

Even the Ender 3 is a clone of a clone but it was one of the first to bring a good build volume and a sturdy aluminum frame to the low budget $200 price range. Before that most aluminium frame i3 clones were around the $500 mark. But since the Ender 3 came out a lot of manufacturers have been bringing out great aluminum frame budget printers to compete, some like the Anet E10 (I think it is) look good but still have a fair few issues, where as others like the Geeetech A10 seem to be getting even better reviews than the Ender 3. Either way both Creality and Geeetech have been getting good reviews as companies who stand by their products.

There is a lot on the market and it makes it hard to find the best one, but the competition is great for consumers! I just wish this competition to get quality printers into the budget price bracket started year ago!

If anyone has any other non Reef-Pi related 3D printing questions, there is a couple of great 3D printing threads on Reef2Reef with lots of friendly 3D printing reefers to answer questions so that this thread doesnt get detailed too much

I have couple of these tables already. The geetech a10s looks really sturdy. The fixes/improvement you have mentioned will be applied for this printer as well? I live in an apartment, and was wondering if I must keep the printer in garage or can I keep it inside a room?
I doubt this thread will be easily derailed by a handful or 3d printer related posts , theres too many reef-pi, bug reporting, coral picture going on here

Theres lots of potential for 3d printed parts in this project I think. One of the thing I'll be trying to do with reef-pi is to dial down a pico tank for keeping harder corals (goniopora or some beginner level acros) with reef-pi. I'll need a lot more things for that, including custom power heads and dosing setup. I see 3d printed objects having a wide spectrum usage for different housings (for brain, dosers), contaptions ( for dosing tube holder, light mounts) etc. I wish one day we can have a complete open source pico tank design, covering the stand, and all these physcial parts, along with the controller itself. Together with this list we can have documentations (such as standard operating procedure), that will let beginners to get reproducible results in coral growth, husband, and advance hobbyists can tune the system to care harder to keep corals (like red dragon in a pico ). The same can be applicable for nano or even bigger tanks as well, its just I dont have those or i find even imagining keeping multiple big tanks lot of work :-/ . But wont it be cool if we can say 10 years from now that hey.. follow this docs,, get that BOM, and here is profile (configuration) to grow grandis paly in this type of tank..and user can upload that profile.. and KabooM .. everything is configured and ready to go ...

 

[MaccaPopEye]

I have couple of these tables already. The geetech a10s looks really sturdy. The fixes/improvement you have mentioned will be applied for this printer as well? I live in an apartment, and was wondering if I must keep the printer in garage or can I keep it inside a room?
I doubt this thread will be easily derailed by a handful or 3d printer related posts , theres too many reef-pi, bug reporting, coral picture going on here

Theres lots of potential for 3d printed parts in this project I think. One of the thing I'll be trying to do with reef-pi is to dial down a pico tank for keeping harder corals (goniopora or some beginner level acros) with reef-pi. I'll need a lot more things for that, including custom power heads and dosing setup. I see 3d printed objects having a wide spectrum usage for different housings (for brain, dosers), contaptions ( for dosing tube holder, light mounts) etc. I wish one day we can have a complete open source pico tank design, covering the stand, and all these physcial parts, along with the controller itself. Together with this list we can have documentations (such as standard operating procedure), that will let beginners to get reproducible results in coral growth, husband, and advance hobbyists can tune the system to care harder to keep corals (like red dragon in a pico ). The same can be applicable for nano or even bigger tanks as well, its just I dont have those or i find even imagining keeping multiple big tanks lot of work :-/ . But wont it be cool if we can say 10 years from now that hey.. follow this docs,, get that BOM, and here is profile (configuration) to grow grandis paly in this type of tank..and user can upload that profile.. and KabooM .. everything is configured and ready to go ...

There are so many things you can 3D print for reef tanks. Or any hobby or just around the house really, it's amazing. Being able to design, modify and print out whatever you want still boggles my brain. The idea of having pre-loadable profiles for a tank made from a set BOM is a really interesting one too, I would love to see that happen sounds similar to how Radions and other high end lights have their pre-loaded profiles for LPS or SPS but on a much bigger and more open source scale.

As for a printer you can keep them inside, it doesn't have to be in a garage. I print PLA and PETG with no smell and both are non-toxic anyway (apparently TPU is fine as well and I'm not sure about Nylon as I haven't looked into it). There is debates as to the toxicity of printing ABS fumes as the printing process doesn't completely melt the ABS therefore some argue it doesn't release toxic fumes, however there is a noticeable smell. So I'm not going to risk it with my 2 young kids in the same small living room as my printer so I am building an enclosure for my printer and will have both the input and output air vents going through a carbon air filter to remove anything harmful before I attempt to print ABS.

I haven't got a Geeetech (I can't justify 2 printers in my tiny unit haha my wife would not be happy) so what I know about it is only from watching a few videos and seeing Facebook posts about it on some of the 3D printer groups (and wishing they were available when I bought my printer hahahahaaha).

As far as I am aware the Geeetech A10 (or the Ender 3) won't need any of those fixes (not even the strain relief or software) as their manufacturers have been paying attention to the community and seeing what things people consider essential (safety being the primary one).

Unlike the Anet (12V) it is a 24V printer so the heat bed and hot end only need half as much current to achieve the same power. Due to the fact it won't need as much current, the connectors on it should be more than safe enough so it won't need an external mosfet. It won't hurt if you want to add one though as if the heating mosfet fails (fairly rare on good boards and it just stops the bed from heating so it's not a safety issue) then replacing an external mosfet is cheaper than replacing the whole main board (with its built in one), but it certainly isn't needed for a safety reason IMO.

I believe the software on the main board is already Marlin and apparently already has thermal protection enabled, I would double check the code just to be sure but that is very easy to do (lots of video tutorials out there about that).

The heat bed even comes with built in strain relief so the wires don't move and the load is already spread out over 6 wires instead of 4 and they are even soldered directly to the heat bed so there is no plug to fail and cause high resistance issues, combined with the lower current and it appears to be much safer.

The stock power supply is a 24V, 15A supply, this should be more than enough, but it wouldn't hurt to check how much the printer will actually use while the heat bed and hot end are heating up, if the power consumption gets close to the 15A then the power supply is the only thing I would maybe consider replacing, but I haven't heard anything bad about them so it wouldn't be a priority.

And I am not sure if they come with a fused switch or not. If not then I would add one ($2) but again, it's not a massive safety issue as the printer as a whole is already pretty safe so it's just adding a layer of redundancy which is always good.

 

[Ranjib]

My acros

 

[sfgabe]

I got some new parts in this week. This is the start for my jebao pump controls.

Hey @pickupman66 - did you ever get to play with this? I've been poking around and I *think* you could use the kessel pwm circuit (from the reef-pi build instructions) with an 3.5 audio cable jack or CAT-5 that is wired in to the Jebao controller input jack like this - https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/jebao-sw-4-to-apex.279528/

I've been planning on testing it out but haven't gotten around to it yet.

 

[sfgabe]

Is there a way to wire in a float switch (the cheapo white ones) that uses a pullup and get it to show up as a reef-pi ato? I have one that works great with a python script (w/ a gpio pullup) doing the reading. I'd rather skip the script and get the reading directly into the reef-pi database and nice UI but can't figure out how to get reef-pi to find the probe.

 

[Ranjib]

Is there a way to wire in a float switch (the cheapo white ones) that uses a pullup and get it to show up as a reef-pi ato? I have one that works great with a python script (w/ a gpio pullup) doing the reading. I'd rather skip the script and get the reading directly into the reef-pi database and nice UI but can't figure out how to get reef-pi to find the probe.

You should be able to use that circuit as it is, and just declare the input GPIO pin as inlet, and use it in ATO.

 

[Ranjib]

You should be able to use that circuit as it is, and just declare the input GPIO pin as inlet, and use it in ATO.

Test it though, once you set things up,

 

[sfgabe]

Test it though, once you set things up,

Thanks for the quick reply @Ranjib - this was the first thing I did, was hoping it would magically work, but no luck. Any other ideas?

Edit: Also of note, I've also tried switching GPIO pins, just in case that one was reserved by the python script, and restarted with a clean DB. No changes with that either.

 

[Erica-Renee]

Tiny UI issue but super easy to overcome .

When in Dashboard configuration. the Browser (using chrome ) Will not let you see the bottom of the Dialog box to select dashboard item Just not sure anyone has seen this.. Its only a issue adding temp to bottom of dashboard i think

 

[Ranjib]

Thanks for the quick reply @Ranjib - this was the first thing I did, was hoping it would magically work, but no luck. Any other ideas?

Edit: Also of note, I've also tried switching GPIO pins, just in case that one was reserved by the python script, and restarted with a clean DB. No changes with that either.

Is it possible to share your python script and circuit details ?

 

[sfgabe]

Is it possible to share your python script and circuit details ?

The circuit is in heatshrink but if I remember correctly it's a just a 10k resistor splitting the ground wire.

Here's the main bit of the python script...

def my_callback(channel):
    if GPIO.input(8) == GPIO.HIGH:
        print('\n FLOAT at ' + str(datetime.datetime.now()))
        log = open("current_water_level.txt", "w")
        print (('OK | Last flipped at ' + str(datetime.datetime.now())), file = log)
    else:
        print('\n SINK at ' + str(datetime.datetime.now()))
        log = open("current_water_level.txt", "w")
        print (('Low | Last flipped at ' + str(datetime.datetime.now())), file = log)

GPIO.setmode(GPIO.BCM)
GPIO.setup(8, GPIO.IN, pull_up_down=GPIO.PUD_DOWN)
GPIO.add_event_detect(8, GPIO.BOTH, callback=my_callback)

It's run every few minutes via cron and the status is broadcast via mqtt to my home assistant server which can send out alerts & trigger the top off. I'd prefer getting it into reef-pi so I can trigger the top off directly.

 

[pickupman66]

Hey @pickupman66 - did you ever get to play with this? I've been poking around and I *think* you could use the kessel pwm circuit (from the reef-pi build instructions) with an 3.5 audio cable jack or CAT-5 that is wired in to the Jebao controller input jack like this - https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/jebao-sw-4-to-apex.279528/

I've been planning on testing it out but haven't gotten around to it yet.

No. Soccer tournament (2) and swim meets have kept me so busy this month. It will work as it delivers the correct signaling. But what we are in need here is programming to have it fire alternate ports at intervals of seconds or less and at a % of max. Or to get a reef crest randomizer type that changes the speed. I know I could run them on a light program but I really like mine alternating every 7 seconds and a third just in and off every 2.

All that requires code that I don't know how to write so I am waiting until ranjib gets time in the next phase after 2.0 final.