"Reef Safe" butterflies

[Preme]

Ironaically. I just bought one today. A very large one. He's about 6". He was eating at the store, so I put him in QT with a bunch of royal grammas I also bought. I've had several in the past, unfortunately, a parasite took them all out. They do like to graze a lot and it copepods.

How's your Copperband doing in QT? Eating good yet?

 

[salty150]

Ok that's your personal opinion (which is fine to have).
I don't think I would say none of them know what they're talking about. All of them have knowledge about this fish.
Just because you haven't had success with this species in a smaller aquarium doesn't mean it's not possible.
I also dislike how you point out it needs a 6' tank. Which is not true what so ever... where not talking about a tang or angel here.
Butterfly's, especially the copper band are it as active as tangs. They most of the time are hanging out in caves and under overhangs, or swimming around the tank peacefully searching for pods.

Just to clear up a few, or your many, misconceptions -

I have never said that I did not have success with a Copperband in smaller aquariums - I have never put a Copperband in a "smaller aquarium" - and certainly not a 2.5 foot long one - I have sense.

The smallest tank I have ever put a Copperband in was a 125 gallon (6 foot tank).

And I suggest you take your dissatisfaction up with Live Aquaria (pretty much the gold-standard in our hobby) when they state that a Copperband requires a minimum of a 125 gallon tank (6 feet).

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+25+212&pcatid=212

Even if you can find some "sites" that state a Copperband will be "fine" in a 55-75 gallon tank - that doesn't mean a 2.5 foot long tank by any stretch of the imagination.

Let us know how your Copperband fairs in such a small aquarium - however I think we all (any of us with any sense) know what the answer will be.

 

[melypr1985]

If you can't keep your comments at least semi respectful, then you will need to refrain from commenting. This forum is not about berating or talking down to the other members.

 

[salty150]

If you can't keep your comments at least semi respectful, then you will need to refrain from commenting. This forum is not about berating or talking down to the other members.

I certainly hope that wasn't aimed at me - because believe me I have been more than semi-respectful.

If I would say would I am really thinking - it would certainly be something.

And why do we have to be "nice" and "condone" such ridiculous things?

Because they are "just fish"?

If someone came on here and stated that they just bought a Siberian Husky and will be keeping him in a 5 foot cage all day, every day - there would be howling from the rafters at such abuse.

But just because someone does it with a fish - it's OK to just shut up?

No, sorry.

 

[Preme]

Thanks everyone for your opinions on this topic. I'm going to proceed with getting a copperband for the tank due to many people saying it is perfectly fine. I'll update this thread throughout my experience with my fish. Once I notice the copperbands to large for the tank I will be upgrading to a larger tank to accommodate its needs.

If anyone has further comments / experiences they'd like to share that'd be great

 

[saltyhog]

None of them know what they are talking about then - NONE.

Anyone who says a Copperband will do fine in a 2.5 foot long tank has no idea what they are talking about - period!

But, like I said, you are going to do what you are going to do - obviously.

This may be what melypr is referring to. I really agree with much of what you wrote but was somewhat put off by its tone myself. The list of people Rex made in the post you quoted contained some very well respected hobbyists (some that most would consider to be "experts"). Blanket statements rarely are accurate.... Or wise.

 

[Preme]

This may be what melypr is referring to. I really agree with much of what you wrote but was somewhat put off by its tone myself. The list of people Rex made in the post you quoted contained some very well respected hobbyists (some that most would consider to be "experts"). Blanket statements rarely are accurate.... Or wise.

Yes that's the whole reason I said they know a lot about fish because personally I'd consider them experts.

 

[kalare]

I believe some of the comments posted here have quite a tone animosity, even if unintended. It's MUCH more effective to politely state your opinion as an opinion, perhaps even an informed opinion with cited studies, then to absolutely say others are "WRONG!!!!" and are being cruel and/or foolish for thinking otherwise.

I've been keeping fish for almost 30 years, reef tank for almost 25...I was around before the Tang police, and am still here long after. There are no scientific studies that I know of that relate to tangs or butterflies in smaller (sub 100G) tanks that show them to have shorter life span or to behave out of character because of those confines. I've had a purple and a blue tang in an 80 gallon tank for over 15 years, the purple tang approaching 20. They are healthy and fat and exhibit similar behavior to tangs in much larger systems. Were I to do it over again, sure I'd use a larger tank, but to make the blanket statement that it's absolutely wrong to keep any butterfly in a tank under 125g, is, in my opinion, not true.

If someone came on here and stated that they just bought a Siberian Husky and will be keeping him in a 5 foot cage all day, every day - there would be howling from the rafters at such abuse.

This is a false comparison, a dog is clearly and evidently, a sentient animal. Take a dog out of it's surroundings and put it someplace new, you can tell it's scared. Place a fish in a net, take it out of the ocean, put it in a store, net, bag, floating, Q tank...and then it's swimming and eating in 5 minutes. Of course this depends on species, but you get the point. Research in this area on fish is small and sketchy at best, and even if it turns out that fish do have some sort of higher function, it will in no way be comparable to that of a mammal. Note that this does not in any way mean that I am pro big fish in small tanks, only that it is not so black and white, and that perhaps, even though it is the internet, we should all treat one another respectfully.

While, like others, I do agree that 2.5' tank is probably not the best permanent environment for a butterfly, I don't believe stating that anything less than 125g is unacceptable. There are several other factors to consider, such as tank dimensions, amount of rock inside, and size of individual fish.

 

[Preme]

I believe some of the comments posted here have quite a tone animosity, even if unintended. It's MUCH more effective to politely state your opinion as an opinion, perhaps even an informed opinion with cited studies, then to absolutely say others are "WRONG!!!!" and are being cruel and/or foolish for thinking otherwise.

I've been keeping fish for almost 30 years, reef tank for almost 25...I was around before the Tang police, and am still here long after. There are no scientific studies that I know of that relate to tangs or butterflies in smaller (sub 100G) tanks that show them to have shorter life span or to behave out of character because of those confines. I've had a purple and a blue tang in an 80 gallon tank for over 15 years, the purple tang approaching 20. They are healthy and fat and exhibit similar behavior to tangs in much larger systems. Were I to do it over again, sure I'd use a larger tank, but to make the blanket statement that it's absolutely wrong to keep any butterfly in a tank under 125g, is, in my opinion, not true.



This is a false comparison, a dog is clearly and evidently, a sentient animal. Take a dog out of it's surroundings and put it someplace new, you can tell it's scared. Place a fish in a net, take it out of the ocean, put it in a store, net, bag, floating, Q tank...and then it's swimming and eating in 5 minutes. Of course this depends on species, but you get the point. Research in this area on fish is small and sketchy at best, and even if it turns out that fish do have some sort of higher function, it will in no way be comparable to that of a mammal. Note that this does not in any way mean that I am pro big fish in small tanks, only that it is not so black and white, and that perhaps, even though it is the internet, we should all treat one another respectfully.

While, like others, I do agree that 2.5' tank is probably not the best permanent environment for a butterfly, I don't believe stating that anything less than 125g is unacceptable. There are several other factors to consider, such as tank dimensions, amount of rock inside, and size of individual fish.

Thank you for your thoughts! I totally agree with you on your statements and I'm glad you have had a similar experience with tangs and it's working out perfectly fine for you.
As I stated before, the tanks demensions are 30" L x 18" W x 24"H. My rocks is some what "minimal" which is because I'm trying to give my SPS plenty of room to grown out, which also creates hiding area for fish. But I do have plenty of overhangs and a few caves in which fish can hang back in. As it goes for size of the fish, I'm going to try and get a 2" specimen. If one day it comes to the point where I or others think the fish is too large I'm more then happy to upgrade to a larger tank for the fish

 

[Breakthecycle2]

How's your Copperband doing in QT? Eating good yet?

Yes, he eats mysis.

 

[Humblefish]

I certainly hope that wasn't aimed at me - because believe me I have been more than semi-respectful.

If I would say would I am really thinking - it would certainly be something.

And why do we have to be "nice" and "condone" such ridiculous things?

Because they are "just fish"?

If someone came on here and stated that they just bought a Siberian Husky and will be keeping him in a 5 foot cage all day, every day - there would be howling from the rafters at such abuse.

But just because someone does it with a fish - it's OK to just shut up?

No, sorry.

Here is something I've learned over time: Berating or ridiculing someone rarely causes the change in thinking or behavior that you desire.

I get frustrated when I see people refusing to QT, and yet their fish die again & again. But instead of lashing out, I've found if I continue to be patient, reserve judgement and just offer the best advice I can give ... then sometimes they "get it" and come to certain realizations on their own. And when people figure out things for themselves, it can last forever and is worth so much more than my simple words on a screen.

We only learn by doing and unfortunately, from making our own mistakes.

 

[Preme]

Here is something I've learned over time: Berating or ridiculing someone rarely causes the change in thinking or behavior that you desire.

I get frustrated when I see people refusing to QT, and yet their fish die again & again. But instead of lashing out, I've found if I continue to be patient, reserve judgement and just offer the best advice I can give ... then sometimes they "get it" and come to certain realizations on their own.

We only learn by doing and unfortunately, from making our own mistakes.

What's your thought about this? If you missed it earlier the tanks 56 gallons 30" x 18" x 24".

Also I wasn't taking @salty150 advice, out of the many people I've talked to who I considered "fish experts" and have a lot of knowledge about fish in general have stated it would work perfectly fine for a copperband in my size tank. If I got a smaller sized one arroyos 2" and see how it's doing in my tank once it's close to or at its adult size then I And or other can make the judgement if it's a good time for a tank upgrade.

 

[salty150]

Here is something I've learned over time: Berating or ridiculing someone rarely causes the change in thinking or behavior that you desire.

I get frustrated when I see people refusing to QT, and yet their fish die again & again. But instead of lashing out, I've found if I continue to be patient, reserve judgement and just offer the best advice I can give ... then sometimes they "get it" and come to certain realizations on their own.

We only learn by doing and unfortunately, from making our own mistakes.

I know what you are saying...

But this isn't stamp collecting

Their "learn by doing" causes an animal to die.

If we were doing the same thing with dogs/cats, etc. - there would be outrage.

But for fish - it seems to be fine - just call up the place where you bought it - say it died - and they will send you another one, etc.

And this really isn't even a close call - sure a Copperband might make it in a 4 foot long tank - will it be happy, probably not.

But there really is no one on here who can sensibly state that a 2.5 foot long tank is appropriate for a Copperband.

 

[Humblefish]

What's your thought about this? If you missed it earlier the tanks 56 gallons 30" x 18" x 24".

Also I wasn't taking @salty150 advice, out of the many people I've talked to who I considered "fish experts" and have a lot of knowledge about fish in general have stated it would work perfectly fine for a copperband in my size tank. If I got a smaller sized one arroyos 2" and see how it's doing in my tank once it's close to or at its adult size then I And or other can make the judgement if it's a good time for a tank upgrade.

I wouldn't put a CBB in anything less than a 4-foot tank, a 6-foot would be much better. While they don't do laps around the tank like an Acanthurus tang does, they do like to pick & explore and would be cramped in anything less than a 4-footer.

 

[Preme]

I know what you are saying...

But this isn't stamp collecting

Their "learn by doing" causes an animal to die.

If we were doing the same thing with dogs/cats, etc. - there would be outrage.

But for fish - it seems to be fine - just call up the place where you bought it - say it died - and they will send you another one, etc.

And this really isn't even a close call - sure a Copperband might make it in a 4 foot long tank - will it be happy, probably not.

But there really is no one on here who can sensibly state that a 2.5 foot long tank is appropriate for a Copperband.

Man I'm not trying to argue with I completely see the side your coming from. All I'm saying is I'm not buying a full grown copperband right of the bat and putting it into my tank. I've seen the size they can fully achieve once adults. I'll be buying a 2" specimen and keeping it in the tank for 2-3 years ( because copperbands are slow growers) or however much time it take before it starts to become to large. At that time I'll know it's too large and I'll be 100% on board to upgrade to a 6 foot tank to provide ample swimming space for the full grown adult. But in the mean time a 2" to 4" (maybe even 5") stages the copperband will be great in the tank

 

[salty150]

I wouldn't put a CBB in anything less than a 4-foot tank, a 6-foot would be much better. While they don't do laps around the tank like an Acanthurus tang does, they do like to pick & explore and would be cramped in anything less than a 4-footer.

There you go - from a real expert.

 

[Preme]

There you go - from a real expert.

Yes I see that! But don't you agree putting a 2" copperband into the tank would be fine and then once it reaches a larger size I can upgrade my tank.

 

[Humblefish]

I know what you are saying...

But this isn't stamp collecting

Their "learn by doing" causes an animal to die.

If we were doing the same thing with dogs/cats, etc. - there would be outrage.

But for fish - it seems to be fine - just call up the place where you bought it - say it died - and they will send you another one, etc.

And this really isn't even a close call - sure a Copperband might make it in a 4 foot long tank - will it be happy, probably not.

But there really is no one on here who can sensibly state that a 2.5 foot long tank is appropriate for a Copperband.

Let me ask you this, when you clean out your filter socks do you carefully pick out every little amphipod & starfish?

 

[salty150]

Yes I see that! But don't you agree putting a 2" copperband into the tank would be fine and then once it reaches a larger size I can upgrade my tank.

No - very few fish belong in a 2.5 foot long tank.

Especially once you add in your live rock and corals.

My God, a lot of "experts" use tanks larger than your 2.5 foot for a QT!

 

[Preme]

No - very few fish belong in a 2.5 foot long tank.

Especially once you add in your live rock and corals.

My God, a lot of "experts" use your size tank for a QT!

Ok I'm sorry I have such a "small tank". I'm only 16 I've been in the hobby for 5 years, and I'm sorry I can't afford a huge tank like you have where can almost stock anything... I have to deal with what I have now (which I'm more then happy with), and won't be able to upgrade until the future in a few years....