Reef tank build from day one

[bdejong1112o]

Hello, Post number two! Figured a build thread would be appropriate for me since I am returning from a long hiatus of owning a salt tank.

I am by no means an expert and my largest tank in the last was a 55 gallon fish only tank way back in the late 90's. Yup, I am an older gentleman but that a different story.

My last was a smaller 29 gallon FOWLR and i had that one running for several years with good success until work kept me traveling to much to maintain it.

Now i have the time, money, space and most importantly the support(permission) from my wife to jump back in.

So here it goes. Oh, it goes without saying that I am going to need help, lots of help and welcome any and all suggestions and advice as I move forward. So thanks in advance to all who participate and assist me.

My plan is for a reef tank this time. Sounds so easy when you say it but I am sure its going to be a journey.

I am currently looking locally at used tanks to get me started. The tank I ended up going with is highlighted in bold below.

• 150 gallon tank with stand, canopy, sump with no protien skimmer, hood and lights. Owner has had it empty for a few years. Stated it may need the bulbs replaced in the lamps. They work but may be time to replace. Its a drilled tank and looks to be all plumbed and ready. It does not have the corner type of over flows. I am going to go look at it this weekend to see how the water flow is setup. Stand and canopy are production made and purchased with the tank. $1,000 asking price.
• 180 gallon tank with homemade stand and canopy. 75 gallon sump, protien skimmer, plumbing. No lights or other components. The stand and canopy are well built but would need a new coat of paint to freshen it up. $750.00 asking price.
• 250 gallon tank with stand and canopy. No details of what also included. Reaching out to seller for more information. $900.00 asking price.
• 220 gallon tank with standard store bought stand. Good condition and has some rock and three Radeon XR30 pro lights. This is the tank I went with.

I want to stick with 100+ gallons and wide as most people recomend. Just need to decide which one and how much work on the initial setup I want to do. The 150 is cleaner and looks more complete but the 180, well its a 180. The 250 just showed up and while it looks awesome it also much larger than i was planning and is a bit intimidating. It is also far to talk and would be a pain to maintain.

Thats all I have so far. Trying to take my time and know that any of the above will take some time to move, clean and prep before water goes in.

So I figured I would update the main starting thread with planning information so it's all in one post instead of spread out like peanut butter.

Main goal is an automated tank as much as possible. I am an engineer by trade and live data. The more data I have to happier I am. My how things have advanced since I owned a tank last.

 

[CodyRVA]

Following along!

150 - I would see what light fixture it is, bulbs wouldn't be my concern. If it's an ATI fixture then $1K for this setup is a good deal, you could almost spend that on a new ATI fixture alone. What type of over flows does it have, if not corner? What type of sump?

180 - Really depends on the condition, type of tank, sump and skimmer, but could be a good buy.

250 - Need more info, $900 isn't a bad starting price... depends

Ultimately, you should consider your livestock. Your options change a lot from a 150 to a 250. Any system I setup going forward will be designed and built around the livestock intended to be housed in the system. I'm currently building a system just for designer clowns and nems. Conversely, I built an 80G and simply stocked it with what would work; doable, but not as satisfying if you have a "dream" fish in mind.

 

[bdejong1112o]

Excellent questions Cody. I did talk to the owner of the 250g tank. Its a complete setup from lights to sump. The owner sounds like a good guy and even offered to help set it up to make sure its all good to go. Only thing i am not sure of is that its a 5foot wide tank. So its taller and deeper than the 150 and 180 tanks most talk about for reef setups. Is the more square shape still good.

I know, what will I put in it? So far my only real solid decision is that it will be reef. I want a good selection of coral. My wife wants to be sure we also have some nice fish in it. Would the 250g allow for more fish mass? I would think so but with it being a deeper tank i would also assume it would need more light to get all the way to the bottom. Is there any advantage, other than water volume to having a deeper tank?

 

[CodyRVA]

Excellent questions Cody. I did talk to the owner of the 250g tank. Its a complete setup from lights to sump. The owner sounds like a good guy and even offered to help set it up to make sure its all good to go. Only thing i am not sure of is that its a 5foot wide tank. So its taller and deeper than the 150 and 180 tanks most talk about for reef setups. Is the more square shape still good.

I know, what will I put in it? So far my only real solid decision is that it will be reef. I want a good selection of coral. My wife wants to be sure we also have some nice fish in it. Would the 250g allow for more fish mass? I would think so but with it being a deeper tank i would also assume it would need more light to get all the way to the bottom. Is there any advantage, other than water volume to having a deeper tank?

With a deeper tank you're going to naturally have an expanded PAR range. My 80 is a lagoon style tank, very shallow. My par goes from 500-450 top, 450-350 middle, 350-250 sand bed and corners/areas of shade around 150-200. That sounds like a wide range, but this range only spans 16 inches so I don't have much vertical space of PAR between 350-450. A taller tank will allow for more space in those PAR ranges which in turn opens the door for more coral demanding similar lighting requirements.

Example... Things like Zoas and palys must be acclimated over time before I can move them into higher PAR areas if I am out of space in my lower PAR areas. Once I fill up the bottom half of my tank with coral, I'm very limited on what I can add moving forward, but there are pros and cons like anything else.... my lagoon tank is very easy to clean

You'll find that the 1 inch of fish per gallon rule of thumb is kind of history these days. Most people judge it off of the eating habits of the fish themselves as well as the equipment and build efficiency of the system. Tangs for instance are constant eaters and tend to produce more waste; some can also get quite large. In my 80, i'm very limited on what types of tangs I can house. Conversely, with a 180 the options open up quite a bit. As far as stocking goes, you can add coral to basically any sized system with adequate chemistry, flow and lighting. Fish on the other hand are much more specific. You should not keep a blue hippo in an 80G system; you can keep one in a 180G system. That being said, you could fill a 250 with say a dozen tangs and be at a max capacity (just an example, don't take these numbers to heart) whereas I could put 20 small nano fish in my 80 and still have room for more.

Ultimately... buy the right tank for the fish, don't buy the wrong fish for your tank.

 

[bdejong1112o]

So I took a look at the 150g setup today. I dont think its the right one. It originally was drilled for a center overflow. It has two holes in the bottom of the tank in the middle. You can see the outline of what used to be the overflow cover. At some time someone drilled the back corners and its now setup to run corner overflows with pipes for the return just hooked over the edge.

I dont like the idea of plugged holes on the bottom. The sump, while present was not in the best shape. It was plastic or lexan but was covered in crud. There was no protien skimmer, the lights were older corallife that used T5 lamps with three 175w 20k bulbs.

The paint in the back of the tank was peeling and was removed over some of it so it would take some work to repair.

The stand and canopy were in om shape but wpuld need work. All in all I dont think it was worth the asking price and what I would offer may have been an insult so I politely bowed out.

So, I am starting to lean toward the 180g tank. I think i can haggle the price a bit and the tank is the size that appeals to me. It also has a good sump tank and a skimmer to start. The only thing missing is the lights.

So here is the question. Any good suggestions for reasonable priced lights that would be good for a 180g tank? Led preferred.

 

[bdejong1112o]

Update. The 180 upon closer inspection had some minor scratches. Had to sit and think about that for a bit. Patience is something i struggle with at times. However, i am going to pass on that tank. This is going to be my showcase in my living room and I want it to be perfect. This is leading me to make the following decisions.

• Going to consider a new tank. Far more expensive but will be in perfect condition and i will know the age.
• Going to build the stand. While i am not a carpenter by trade i think i can do a good job and it will ensure that everything fits perfect. I also could make it out of steep and weld it since i can do that and have frinds who can powder coat it for me. It would also be super sturdy that way and allows for other options like magnetic panels etc

 

[bdejong1112o]

Update..
Productive day today. So after thinking a few things over I started calling around to the local stores to inquire about new tanks. Some of them had used tanks. One had a 180g with stand and canopy. Price was a bit high for used but i understand the shop has to make a few bucks. However, once i got there i was told it wasnt for sale. Some sort of misunderstanding. But, here come the good part. My friend who was with me showed me a 220g with stand and some extras for a fair price on craigslist. Didnt see that tank before, couldnt understand why. Then it hit me. It was listed as a fish tank and not an aquarium. What? Why didnt i think to search that term?

So I contacted the seller and went to take a look at it. Here is the good and maybe bad.

• Sump was useless. Very old three chamber that uses large filter mats and was intended for bio balls. Basically useless. But thats ok, doing reasearch on either making one or buying one.
• Tank was in good shape, no observable scratches or defects at all. It is drilled with dual overflows on the backside of the tank.
• Stand is store bought but in good shape and has plenty of room for equipment.
• Owner actuall helped move it to my house and with the weight of this thing that was worth quite a bit.
• Bad....it was currently being used as a freshwater tank... only a few small fish and a couple rocks and sand.

I was also able to purchase three Radion XR30w Pro lights for a reasonable price. This takes care of my lighting needs.

First thing on my list is cleaning and sanitizing the tank. What is the best way to accomplish this? I want this tank to be like new before i start it up.

 

[bdejong1112o]

So today I picked up the return pump that I will use on this tank. I went with the eflux dc pump with flow control from current. It is a 3,170gph pump. The LFS told me this would work well with my tank.

Tonight we hooked up temporary pipes to get the return and overflow working with a big empty tub to circulate water and vinegar to sanitize the tank. The LFS told me to do this and let it run for a few days. Then its a dran and flush.

So its full and water is cycling through the tank. Pump is working great and i am glad its adjustable, that was very handy in getting the return flow dialed in quickly.

 

[CodyRVA]

Great progress! +1 on the vinegar, usually cleans everything up quite well. I wouldn't worry too much that it was used for fresh water or saltwater, if you do a good job cleaning it up before use, the prior use won't matter.

 

[bdejong1112o]

Talk about a nervous sleep last night. The alarm went off this morning and instead of my normal, ahem, wake up routine i was in the living room checking the tank.

Glad to report no leaks and everything is run ing smoothly. Nice benefit of having to run this cleaning fill is that i already have a few changes i am going to make to the overflow setup that would be difficult to do with a full running tank. When i drain it down i will make the changes and test in the next rjnsing phase. Should be a benefit once i get ready for the real stuff.

Any good advice or videos for tuning the flow? I have it running pretty low right now as its just cycling water but i would like to understand the process for when its go time.

 

[Ryan@ShelteredReef Verified Sponsor]

Talk about a nervous sleep last night. The alarm went off this morning and instead of my normal, ahem, wake up routine i was in the living room checking the tank.

Glad to report no leaks and everything is run ing smoothly. Nice benefit of having to run this cleaning fill is that i already have a few changes i am going to make to the overflow setup that would be difficult to do with a full running tank. When i drain it down i will make the changes and test in the next rjnsing phase. Should be a benefit once i get ready for the real stuff.

Any good advice or videos for tuning the flow? I have it running pretty low right now as its just cycling water but i would like to understand the process for when its go time.

The primary objective of your return pump is to cycle a certain volume of water through your sump. A good starting point is to have a sump turnover of about 2-3x the GPH of the pump on your protein skimmer. Of course you have to take the head pressure on the pump into account when figuring out what the actual flow rate of your return pump will be. This will generally work out to be 3-5x total system volume turnover per hour.
The majority of your circulation in the display should be carried out by a separate source of flow. Power heads or a closed loop system are the most common.

 

[bdejong1112o]

The cleaning cycle has finished. The tank is drained and i am going to start playing with my pile of rocks. Now, i recieved the rock as part of the tank purchase and the previous owner said it was cleaned and power washed. It is mostly white in color but the question now is should i do anything with it before using it in the tank?

Can i place it in the tank and fill with fresh water and clean it like i did the tank? I have the time as i am working out the sump choices right now.

 

[bdejong1112o]

So discussed this with the LFS, saltwater only and his suggestion was to either run it in a bucket with a power head or I could run it in the tank with vinegar again. He suggested three days, then drain, refill with clean fresh water and add a buffer agent for the rock. Run a few days and the drain.

Reasonable?

 

[Daniel@R2R Verified Admin]

I did an acid bath on all my rock and have been happy with the results. If you're worried at all about there being stuff on it, I might suggest doing that.

Maybe the #reefsquad can help with the flow question above. IMO the more flow, the better, but that will ultimately depend on what you plan to keep.

 

[Brew12]

So discussed this with the LFS, saltwater only and his suggestion was to either run it in a bucket with a power head or I could run it in the tank with vinegar again. He suggested three days, then drain, refill with clean fresh water and add a buffer agent for the rock. Run a few days and the drain.

Reasonable?

I'd recommend a bucket with a powerhead and heater. After a week measure for ammonia, nitrate and phosphate. If you don't have much of any of the three then you should be just fine using it.

 

[bdejong1112o]

Update:

So cleaning the rock in the tank was a disaster. Water clouded up, drained and rinsed and still yuck. So I got a barrel, some bleach, pump and heater and its soaking outside.

I have about 125lbs in the barrel with approximately 40 gallons of water and two gallons of bleach. I read several threads on using bleach and a 20:1 ratio. Does that sound about right? I plan to run it for a week in the bleach and then drain, rinse, power wash and then sun bake.

The question is about the rinse after blzsting all the loose crap off it with the power washer. Should I run it with fresh water and declorinator? Or will it be good if its allowed to bake in the sun for awhile?

 

[bdejong1112o]

Well, two days in the barrel was enough. I pulled the pieces out and hosed them down with a power washer. They are back in the barrel with fresh water and a ton of prime. Going to let them soak a day and then rinse and repeat one more time. I will continue to test for chlorine. After they are clear they will bake for a few days in the sun.

They came out looking great and i got a ton of gunk off them, the water ran brown to say the least. Most came out bright white.

 

[bdejong1112o]

So after much planning and thought if how to get the required refugium size for the Triton method and all the other sump stuff I came up with this.

I am using a two sump setup. The first is a heavy duty 27 gallon tub that will be used for just the refugium. This tub is connected to my 40 gallon second tank through a 2" bulkhead. It feeds right into the skimmer section. The next section is the return pump. The remaining 24 gallons of the tank is going to be an ATO reservoir.

The tank is drilled with two holes per overflow. I am using the 1" pipes are the main overflow and the 3/4" pipes will be used for the emergency overflows. That's why there are four overflow pipes going into the tub.

I am running a 1" return pipe from the return pipe which will split off to 4 3/4" locline segments for return to the tank.

I also installed under cabinet lights so that it's well lit for routine maintenance functions.

The tank still has the cardboard templates in place. Going to get some glass cut locally once I am certain of the sizes.

I also have to install the 1" drain line extensions once I settle in on the height of the refugium tub. That will make it nice and quiet.

 

[Swoody]

Question ..... if you are running 4 ovflo drains.... where will your return lines go? I'm thinking that one of each hole in each ovflo box is for the return. ( unless I totally missed something! )

 

[bdejong1112o]

I am running a return line behind the tank and over the rim. This was the only way to run two overflow drains and have an emergency drain in each overflow. I have seen several tanks with this setup and it works well.