Reefer Stand Structural Integrity - Pls Help!

[davocean]

Just want to clarify my last post,

as this sentence:
"Shimming can be used to level tanks (by shimming the stand), but they should NOT be used to level a tank, especially if the stand is giving way, like this one is."

Might be a bit vague.

You can shimm the stand (between te stand & the floor) to level the tank & the stand, but you shouldn't level the tank, by putting a shimm on top of the stand & under the tank.

And in this case shimming even correctly at floor will most likely do nothing w/out having a vertical brace in center to project that shimmed amount.

 

[MnFish1]

Side panel has a slight bow to it and due to how they designed the anchors there is a small gap between that panel and piece that the tank rests on. Their advice was to take the tank down and rebuild the stand with new hardware. I'm just watching it closely. So far it hasn't gotten worse but if it does I'll probably brace it internally.

I believe the 650 is maybe a little large for an ikea style stand.

I will say the stands are not exactly simple to set up. How old is yours and did you ask them to replace it. I would think that the bowed section would be a problem when reassembling

 

[OriginalUserName]

I will say the stands are not exactly simple to set up. How old is yours and did you ask them to replace it. I would think that the bowed section would be a problem when reassembling

I set it up this past July. They sent me new anchor hardware and wished me luck. I just don't see how brace points at the top and bottoms are enough to keep a 1/2" piece of food from distorting. Anything is possible, but I don't believe it is a build mistake.

I don't know what I expected of them but feels like I paid a premium price without premium support.

 

[MnFish1]

I set it up this past July. They sent me new anchor hardware and wished me luck. I just don't see how brace points at the top and bottoms are enough to keep a 1/2" piece of food from distorting. Anything is possible, but I don't believe it is a build mistake.

I don't know what I expected of them but feels like I paid a premium price without premium support.

On one of my stands o e of the doors was very slightly warped. They offered to replace it. It does sound like they did t give you great options

 

[davocean]

I set it up this past July. They sent me new anchor hardware and wished me luck. I just don't see how brace points at the top and bottoms are enough to keep a 1/2" piece of food from distorting. Anything is possible, but I don't believe it is a build mistake.

I don't know what I expected of them but feels like I paid a premium price without premium support.

I'd be curious how the underside is supported, and how the top rails are designed and material used(Is it solid wood?)

Normally we suggest 3/4" ply for subtop, I'm kinda surprised they used 1/2" subtop w/out a center support on a trimless tank stand

 

[MnFish1]

I'd be curious how the underside is supported, and how the top rails are designed and material used(Is it solid wood?)

Normally we suggest 3/4" ply for subtop, I'm kinda surprised they used 1/2" subtop w/out a center support on a trimless tank stand

That’s the thing there is a brace under the stand it is just off center. There is a cabinet about 1/3 of the way from the right side of the tank that has a full sheet of the same material anchored well to the back top and bottom. This ‘sag’ is not in the middle of the tank

 

[BrianReefer]

Thanks so much for everyone’s replies and suggestions so far. I’ve been in touch with Red Sea. The good news is they have offered to replace the stand; the bad news is they discontinued the 450 so they’re trying to see if they can get additional stands from their factory. We both agreed I can’t leave it as is. If they cannot get the stand then we’ll have to move to a plan B but haven’t gotten there yet. They do not think the tank itself needs to be replaced - saying if it hasn’t failed it should be ok on a new stand - and haven’t offered to do so. Curious for your thoughts on that too! Lastly, I found this product and it looks like a good option and has good reviews - what do you guys think?

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Tiger-B...stable-Stud-Caps-Adapter-J-ADJUSTUD/206374535

I like it because it will let me measure close enough, and then adjust an tiny bit just enough for the sagging part to have some structural support. My plan wouldn’t be to adjust it all the way back up to level for tank support - but rather just enough to prevent further sagging while I wait a few weeks for Red Sea to get the stand in stock from Germany.

On the other comments, there is no water damage to the top of the stand. The foam mat is on, all the boards remain tightly connected, no seams showing. The tank was moved twice so maybe that stressed it in some way, I don’t know. But I too have some concern now on the longevity of these stands based on this experience.

 

[NewGoby]

Thanks so much for everyone’s replies and suggestions so far. I’ve been in touch with Red Sea. The good news is they have offered to replace the stand; the bad news is they discontinued the 450 so they’re trying to see if they can get additional stands from their factory. We both agreed I can’t leave it as is. If they cannot get the stand then we’ll have to move to a plan B but haven’t gotten there yet. They do not think the tank itself needs to be replaced - saying if it hasn’t failed it should be ok on a new stand - and haven’t offered to do so. Curious for your thoughts on that too! Lastly, I found this product and it looks like a good option and has good reviews - what do you guys think?

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Tiger-B...stable-Stud-Caps-Adapter-J-ADJUSTUD/206374535

I like it because it will let me measure close enough, and then adjust an tiny bit just enough for the sagging part to have some structural support. My plan wouldn’t be to adjust it all the way back up to level for tank support - but rather just enough to prevent further sagging while I wait a few weeks for Red Sea to get the stand in stock from Germany.

On the other comments, there is no water damage to the top of the stand. The foam mat is on, all the boards remain tightly connected, no seams showing. The tank was moved twice so maybe that stressed it in some way, I don’t know. But I too have some concern now on the longevity of these stands based on this experience.

I agree with Red Sea that if the tank itself hasn't failed, there's no need to replace it. It's just the stand.

The stud i still feel like is a good idea, atleast to prevent a total collapse.

 

[MnFish1]

Thanks so much for everyone’s replies and suggestions so far. I’ve been in touch with Red Sea. The good news is they have offered to replace the stand; the bad news is they discontinued the 450 so they’re trying to see if they can get additional stands from their factory. We both agreed I can’t leave it as is. If they cannot get the stand then we’ll have to move to a plan B but haven’t gotten there yet. They do not think the tank itself needs to be replaced - saying if it hasn’t failed it should be ok on a new stand - and haven’t offered to do so. Curious for your thoughts on that too! Lastly, I found this product and it looks like a good option and has good reviews - what do you guys think?

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Tiger-B...stable-Stud-Caps-Adapter-J-ADJUSTUD/206374535

I like it because it will let me measure close enough, and then adjust an tiny bit just enough for the sagging part to have some structural support. My plan wouldn’t be to adjust it all the way back up to level for tank support - but rather just enough to prevent further sagging while I wait a few weeks for Red Sea to get the stand in stock from Germany.

On the other comments, there is no water damage to the top of the stand. The foam mat is on, all the boards remain tightly connected, no seams showing. The tank was moved twice so maybe that stressed it in some way, I don’t know. But I too have some concern now on the longevity of these stands based on this experience.

Interesting - did they have any idea what might have caused it to sag there - is it that its off kilter somewhere else - and its just showing up there. On my Red Sea reefer xl the front glass is not even sitting on the stand.

I guess I'd be concerned about jacking up that middle part in case it causes something else to be worse - its sagging like that for a reason - likely another support is the actual problem.

 

[davocean]

Are those tops ply or MDF?
I would fully expect 1/2" MDF to sag pretty easily.

A few tank manufacturers have made changes in cabinet builds and suppliers, many cabinet builders may be fine for cabs but not knowledgeable when it comes to marine applications.

At least it sounds like they are backing their product, hopefully a quick resolve comes.(I wonder if their lack of these sizes could potentially get you an upgrade... )

 

[MnFish1]

Are those tops ply or MDF?
I would fully expect 1/2" MDF to sag pretty easily.

A few tank manufacturers have made changes in cabinet builds and suppliers, many cabinet builders may be fine for cabs but not knowledgeable when it comes to marine applications.

At least it sounds like they are backing their product, hopefully a quick resolve comes.(I wonder if their lack of these sizes could potentially get you an upgrade... )

Why would it sag? There is a 1/2-3/4 inch by 3 inch piece of wood supporting the entire front length of the stand - that piece of wood would also have to be 'bending' - or coming apart from the stand in that case. And there is full floor to bottom of stand divider 1/3 from the right of the stand. There has to be a larger problem somewhere else thats causing it to warp/twist - but there is no way it can just be 'sagging'.

 

[NewGoby]

Interesting - did they have any idea what might have caused it to sag there - is it that its off kilter somewhere else - and its just showing up there. On my Red Sea reefer xl the front glass is not even sitting on the stand.

I guess I'd be concerned about jacking up that middle part in case it causes something else to be worse - its sagging like that for a reason - likely another support is the actual problem.

Thank you so much for saying this!!

I thought it was just my Reefer 250 that had the front panel match with the stand's doors, and not resting on it!
It's hard to see on pictures online

 

[davocean]

Why would it sag? There is a 1/2-3/4 inch by 3 inch piece of wood supporting the entire front length of the stand - that piece of wood would also have to be 'bending' - or coming apart from the stand in that case. And there is full floor to bottom of stand divider 1/3 from the right of the stand. There has to be a larger problem somewhere else thats causing it to warp/twist - but there is no way it can just be 'sagging'.[/QUOTE

Well I'm asking material for that reason and making my best educated guess(I'm a contractor/cabinet builder myself) and I don't think my question on materials used was answered yet on type of material, but if it was MDF absolutely it can just sag from moisture, and a 1x3 is going to do very little to prevent that

 

[MnFish1]

Well I'm asking material for that reason and making my best educated guess(I'm a contractor/cabinet builder myself) and I don't think my question on materials used was answered yet on type of material, but if it was MDF absolutely it can just sag from moisture, and a 1x3 is going to do very little to prevent that

"These tanks sit on extra durable HPL coated plywood" according to the website. I am not sure I agree with you that 2-3 inches of wood running the length of the stand wouldn't lend a lot of support - the 3 inches is vertical. Wouldn't you see that wood bending or warping as well? I have had (and put together) 2 of these stands/tanks - and they seem very sturdy. Just makes me think that the sagging is a symptom of a problem in another part of the stand.

 

[MnFish1]

I'd be curious how the underside is supported, and how the top rails are designed and material used(Is it solid wood?)

Normally we suggest 3/4" ply for subtop, I'm kinda surprised they used 1/2" subtop w/out a center support on a trimless tank stand

FYI - there is a 'center support' - but its at 1/3 from the right side of the stand - its not in his picture. It is an entire square of plywood - not just a 'brace' - that divides the stand into two cabinets.

There is also a 3 inch (I think might be 2.5 inch) vertical piece of plywood that runs across the entire underside of the stand.

 

[davocean]

It's kind of a moot point since it's a stand that has been discontinued and it's being replaced, and I don't know if it's true to site listing since it's discontinued, but the fact it is no longer usually means there was good reason of some kind.

I was just trying to understand what it was made of so we were not trying to figure it out based on speculation.

Many manufacturers were using MDF, (And some still do)and many have moved away from that, and sometimes it is listed as ply

 

[MnFish1]

It's kind of a moot point since it's a stand that has been discontinued and it's being replaced, and I don't know if it's true to site listing since it's discontinued, but the fact it is no longer usually means there was good reason of some kind.

I was just trying to understand what it was made of so we were not trying to figure it out based on speculation.

Many manufacturers were using MDF, (And some still do)and many have moved away from that, and sometimes it is listed as ply

You were actually correct - The Red Sea reefer xl are made of marine coated plywood - the Reefer not XL are made of MDF. I dont think they discontinued just the stand - they discontinued the reefer 450 system (but agree it could have been because of a problem)

The REEFER™ models are 50cm (20″) wide and and are available in 60cm (24″) long/170 liter (34
gal) capacity, 90cm (36″) long/250 liter (65 gal) capacity or 120cm (47″) long/350 liter (91 gal). These tanks sit on HPL coated MDF Marine Spec cabinets.

 

[MnFish1]

It's kind of a moot point since it's a stand that has been discontinued and it's being replaced, and I don't know if it's true to site listing since it's discontinued, but the fact it is no longer usually means there was good reason of some kind.

I was just trying to understand what it was made of so we were not trying to figure it out based on speculation.

Many manufacturers were using MDF, (And some still do)and many have moved away from that, and sometimes it is listed as ply

Curious to hear your opinion on this - I was told a long time ago - that the only place a tank needed to be supported is on the ends -that the corners were the only place that 'needed' support. I used to have a 90 gallon tank set on cinder blocks - only on the ends. Never had a problem .

 

[NewGoby]

You were actually correct - The Red Sea reefer xl are made of marine coated plywood - the Reefer not XL are made of MDF. I dont think they discontinued just the stand - they discontinued the reefer 450 system (but agree it could have been because of a problem)

The REEFER™ models are 50cm (20″) wide and and are available in 60cm (24″) long/170 liter (34
gal) capacity, 90cm (36″) long/250 liter (65 gal) capacity or 120cm (47″) long/350 liter (91 gal). These tanks sit on HPL coated MDF Marine Spec cabinets.

Since I have a Reefer 250, should I be worried or... ?

 

[davocean]

Since I have a Reefer 250, should I be worried or... ?

Chances are if a stand had any material or design issues they would have been corrected, and my guess why new stands or design now, if not just discontinued of OP's.

Always if you have any doubts or questions you should just ask manufacturer, as all will have different designs of stands and even tanks, and sometimes they change stand builders for one reason or another.

People seem to love these tanks, they are pretty popular right now, seem to back product.