Reefers Moonshine Method - Let's discuss

[Saltyreef]

So what? Budget $600/yr in ICP tests?

Yes initial costs a bit higher but ive wasted a lot more money chasing other things not knowing what may actually be wrong....
Once you get the hang of things you may only need to send one in every couple months.

I think i have the same amount invested in hanna checkers.....

 

[Saltyreef]

The reason I use Kent marine is the cheapest Ive found so far lol, I’d use all for reef if it wasn’t so expensive

Totally.
I use the BRS hybrid balling method but i use DIY solution where i can to save money LOL.

Arm and hammer is just so much darn cheaper than USP grade from BRS hahaha.

 

[mindme]

I keep seeing references to the
Reefers Moonshine Method.

I think.... I know what it is but want to hear everyone's input on this word-of-mouth movement. Another rendering fad??

Explain to everyone what it is like we're brand new to it


.

I'm planning on switching over to it soon. I do not do water changes on my 180g tank. I learned about lacking trace minerals the hard way - my corals started to fade away/die without them. From the way people talked, I didn't expect them to deplete so quickly.

I am currently using the BRS tri-balling method. Where I add the trace parts into my calcium and soda ash, and also dose the part C. This is working for me currently, however I don't see how I can just blindly dose trace elements forever and it be ok. When I do my ICP tests, some trace minerals are obviously getting used more than others, but my dosing just doses them all. A build up has to occur at some point without hefty water changes.

So I plan to switch to this method so that I can address my tanks specific trace mineral needs.

 

[muzikalmatt]

So what? Budget $600/yr in ICP tests?

As I mentioned in my earlier post, most people dial back the frequency of their ICP testing once they get a sense of the consumption rates for their tank.

Did you actually want to discuss the moonshiners method or were you just looking for an excuse to belittle and talk down to people that use it? I mean it's fine if you disagree with the method or think it's overkill, but there's no need to be purposefully disingenuous.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Maybe I'm confused but isn't the moonshiners method the same as the triton method but with slight variation?

Yes, my understanding is that both are based on the very good premise of dosing exactly what is needed. It is part of my "dream method".

The complications are:

1. knowing what is in the water (ICP is not perfect in this regard as it ignores chemical form, and may or may not be accurate). The need to know also varies with time. If I dose Mn, how long is it adequately bioavailable? Hours? Days? Weeks?
2. Knowing what concentration of what chemical is actually required and/or optimal in the water
3. Knowing what to do about elements that are too high

 

[mindme]

So what? Budget $600/yr in ICP tests?

I think when it comes to costs, the size of the aquarium is a big deal. I wouldn't use this method on my 29g anemone tank. You can just do water changes cheaply. 5 gallons every 2 weeks. Although I do a water change about once every 3-4 months, as it's just anemones and pulsating xenias with 2 clownfish. All those extra elements aren't really needed by the anemone.

However, when it comes to my 180g tank, that's 40 gallons of water change every 2 weeks. 80 gallons of water a month, and now you are looking at salt costs, plus the costs of making the RODI water. That right there is $30-$35 a month, and making all that water is kind of a pain in the butt. Oh, and it messes with my macro values unless you keep them exactly the same as your salt.

And yet the only reason to do it - to replace trace minerals. I have a refugium for nutrient export. I dose alk, calcium and magnesium. The only thing left is replacing trace minerals.

ICP test is pretty much the same as the cost of water change at this water volume. For people with even bigger tanks, it because a financial advantage.

Of course, still gotta pay for the trace minerals to dose, so a little more expensive. But much less time involved and as they say - time is money.

 

[Utubereefer]

Id rather put a few drops of potion here and there and call it a day.
No water changes are awesome.

No water changes gets detritus piling up in your sump. Ticking time bomb

 

[Utubereefer]

As I mentioned in my earlier post, most people dial back the frequency of their ICP testing once they get a sense of the consumption rates for their tank.

Did you actually want to discuss the moonshiners method or were you just looking for an excuse to belittle and talk down to people that use it? I mean it's fine if you disagree with the method or think it's overkill, but there's no need to be purposefully disingenuous.

I don’t think he’s being disingenuous. He’s just trying to understand. It is very different.

 

[ZoWhat]

I think when it comes to costs, the size of the aquarium is a big deal. I wouldn't use this method on my 29g anemone tank. You can just do water changes cheaply. 5 gallons every 2 weeks. Although I do a water change about once every 3-4 months, as it's just anemones and pulsating xenias with 2 clownfish. All those extra elements aren't really needed by the anemone.

However, when it comes to my 180g tank, that's 40 gallons of water change every 2 weeks. 80 gallons of water a month, and now you are looking at salt costs, plus the costs of making the RODI water. That right there is $30-$35 a month, and making all that water is kind of a pain in the butt. Oh, and it messes with my macro values unless you keep them exactly the same as your salt.

And yet the only reason to do it - to replace trace minerals. I have a refugium for nutrient export. I dose alk, calcium and magnesium. The only thing left is replacing trace minerals.

ICP test is pretty much the same as the cost of water change at this water volume. For people with even bigger tanks, it because a financial advantage.

Of course, still gotta pay for the trace minerals to dose, so a little more expensive. But much less time involved and as they say - time is money.

This is an open discussion

Now I have my opinions, blunt ones mind you.... but I'm not here to say dosing with no waterchanges is wrong.

You can dose banana smoothies along side hydrochloric acid, for all I care.

Me personally I can't wrap my head around paying $600+ a year for ICP testing THEN the cost of dosing on top of that.

It's a well known fact that Tropic Marin uses pharmaceutical grade elements in their salt mix.

I personally would take the $1000 I'm spending on ICP test + dosing (to avoid the manual labor of WCs) ...and buy TM salt

But that's just me.

Y'all do what y'all do.

.

 

[Saltyreef]

No water changes gets detritus piling up in your sump. Ticking time bomb

I dont have this issue. I siphon detritus back thru filter socks and skim the remaining

 

[mindme]

No water changes gets detritus piling up in your sump. Ticking time bomb

You can clean stuff out without removing water.

I do add a little salt about once every other month because I have 6 socks in my sump, and when I swap them out I lose a little bit of water.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I'm planning on switching over to it soon. I do not do water changes on my 180g tank. I learned about lacking trace minerals the hard way - my corals started to fade away/die without them. From the way people talked, I didn't expect them to deplete so quickly.

A few grams of macroalgae growth will entirely deplete a 100 gallon tank of manganese. Thus, the tediousness of dosing to match ICP, because you may need to measure every day for a while.

 

[Utubereefer]

I dont have this issue. I siphon detritus back thru filter socks and skim the remaining

I do this occasionally. But I also prefer water changes for salinity management. To each their own

 

[Saltyreef]

Nobody said you have to totally omit water changes with RM.

I decided to do it already and i havent tried RM yet.....

 

[TheDragonsReef]

Its pretty similar to triton method but instead of targeting natural sea water, it targets some elevated elements that Andre found promote better growth and coloration

 

[Utubereefer]

You can clean stuff out without removing water.

I do add a little salt about once every other month because I have 6 socks in my sump, and when I swap them out I lose a little bit of water.

6 socks?!? That seems like a lot of work

 

[Saltyreef]

I do this occasionally. But I also prefer water changes for salinity management. To each their own

Yes....great!
1000 ways to reef yet hes asking about one method......

Do what you want but this discussion is on RM.....

 

[Utubereefer]

Yes....great!
1000 ways to reef yet hes asking about one method......

Do what you want but this discussion is on RM.....

And you said you don’t use it

 

[Saltyreef]

Can anyone find any threads with any negatives?
Just wondering why all the bashing....

If what youre doing works.....great.....
Move on!

 

[Saltyreef]

And you said you don’t use it

I did say that. I also said i plan to do it soon.

Its a quality program and i havent seen any negatives.
$600 on ICP tests isnt a negative.
People spend more on coral they kill shortly after anyways....