Refugium above dt

[sfin52]

when I started my 75 I was told that I didn’t need a sump and could do it with a canister filter. Fast forward 3 years and I’m in need of a refugium. I have empty 29 and a 10 gallon tank. I wanted to put this above the display and let gravity to feed back into the dt.

Is this possible and equipment suggestions if possible. Thank you.

 

[iced98lx]

As with any pump-fed gravity drained setup you need to consider an overflow situation in the refugium and what happens to the DT when the power goes out. In this case you're making the DT the "Sump" if you compare it to other traditional style setups.

I assume you can't take the opportunity to add a proper sump with refugium below the tank, but now would be an ideal time to do it vs putting one above the DT.

 

[sfin52]

I would love having a sump but I’m not in a position to have one. I’m now in position of having refugium above dt.

My plan is to pump water to the refugium and have an overflow back to the tank. The only way to flood the refugium is if the overflow becomes clogged. If my thinking is correct.

So your saying my dt is now a sump. That makes a lot of sense.

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

I would love having a sump but I’m not in a position to have one. I’m now in position of having refugium above dt.

My plan is to pump water to the refugium and have an overflow back to the tank. The only way to flood the refugium is if the overflow becomes clogged. If my thinking is correct.

So your saying my dt is now a sump. That makes a lot of sense.

Lot's of planing, I was planning one similar. Went different. Lots ideas in the net.

 

[iced98lx]

I would love having a sump but I’m not in a position to have one. I’m now in position of having refugium above dt.

My plan is to pump water to the refugium and have an overflow back to the tank. The only way to flood the refugium is if the overflow becomes clogged. If my thinking is correct.

So your saying my dt is now a sump. That makes a lot of sense.

Understand about not having a sump.

Yes in your case the DT is now a sump. Correct that unless your drain clogs you won't overflow the refuge. You will want to see how much water back-feeds into the DT when the pump to the fuge goes off, just like when a traditional return pump goes off and water drains and back siphons into the sump.

That part concerns me as most don't want to run their DT with the water line very low, so there may not be a lot of space for the fuge to drain into.

Basically take the beginner sump thread and sub fuge for DT and DT for sump, same setup just unusual to have the larger volume on the bottom.

 

[sfin52]

Thank you. Little margin for mistakes.

 

[don_chuwish]

A return nozzle in the refugium that is right at the water line will minimize that back draining. Also, since a fuge doesn't need or want a lot of flow, you can probably get away with 1/2" tubing - which also keeps water volume in the lines minimized. Really tricky part is getting the overflow drains into the DT without it looking ugly, but I've always wanted to try a 'display' refugium above a DT.

 

[Skydvr]

I am setting mine up this way. I'd have it on line now if I hadn't trusted the owner of one of my LFSs (dealing with a large amount of ammoniaand phosphate leaching from some dry rock. Thankfully I hadn't taken my current setup, transferred everything over, and added the new rock as was the original plan. Everthing would have died with ammonia well over 8ppm)
Anyway... My main tank is actually an AIO frag tank. It can take an almost 2 gallon surge volume when the sump back siphons. This is several inches from my refugium, which is located above my display.

Have you calculated or measured how much extra volume the display can handle?
What are the dimensions of the tank?
What is the distance from the waterline to the rim of the tank?
If thee is an internal overflow, what is the available vloume when the tank is running?
What are the dimensions of the tank/container you are intending to use as a refugium?

There have been some good recommendations here, but don't let others discourage you based on the fact that this is atypical. I posted a question elsewhere and had nothing but negative comments and people suggesting that I purchase a new tank with a 'proper' stand over attempting this without taking the time to understand my system or goals. If it is designed properly and accomodates the extra volume from the backsiphon when pumps shut down, this can work well. Unless the refugium is sized similarly to the display, the volume will be much smaller and is easier to accomodate.

 

[Reef-junky]

I am setting mine up this way. I'd have it on line now if I hadn't trusted the owner of one of my LFSs (dealing with a large amount of ammoniaand phosphate leaching from some dry rock. Thankfully I hadn't taken my current setup, transferred everything over, and added the new rock as was the original plan. Everthing would have died with ammonia well over 8ppm)
Anyway... My main tank is actually an AIO frag tank. It can take an almost 2 gallon surge volume when the sump back siphons. This is several inches from my refugium, which is located above my display.

Have you calculated or measured how much extra volume the display can handle?
What are the dimensions of the tank?
What is the distance from the waterline to the rim of the tank?
If thee is an internal overflow, what is the available vloume when the tank is running?
What are the dimensions of the tank/container you are intending to use as a refugium?

There have been some good recommendations here, but don't let others discourage you based on the fact that this is atypical. I posted a question elsewhere and had nothing but negative comments and people suggesting that I purchase a new tank with a 'proper' stand over attempting this without taking the time to understand my system or goals. If it is designed properly and accomodates the extra volume from the backsiphon when pumps shut down, this can work well. Unless the refugium is sized similarly to the display, the volume will be much smaller and is easier to accomodate.

+1

This set up will work fine. It’s been done before.

 

[madweazl]

Dont use an overflow at all. Simply drill a hole in the return chamber of the sump at the desired water level like you were going to plumb in an external return pump and let gravity do the work. If the return pump stops, so does the flow from the sump.

 

[Lasse]

I have my refugium on the backside of my DT - its works perfect - no reasons why madweazl solution above should not work - it will - the principle is tested in millions of aquariums.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Skydvr]

Dont use an overflow at all. Simply drill.....

That is a really good diagram. Did you make that yourself?

 

[madweazl]

That is a really good diagram. Did you make that yourself?

No, sourced from the interwebz. Whoever did it has a number of diagrams.

 

[Victoria M]

I think an above DT fuge is ideal for pod growth and flow of pods to the DT. Just a bit risky. Redundancy ! such as a drain that can handle the flow, a back up drain, having a manifold off the main return line with a valve to control flow or placing the pump in the DT to the fuge in a very stable and aesthetically pleasing way. I think the diagram is more complicated than it needs to be. I like the visual it gives for the drains but strainers are in a bad place to prevent larger critters from blocking the drains...may actually cause an overflow/ blockage.

 

[sfin52]

Ya I’ve been thinking about putting a pump in dt. Over time coraline will overgrow and make it blend in.

 

[madweazl]

I think an above DT fuge is ideal for pod growth and flow of pods to the DT. Just a bit risky. Redundancy ! such as a drain that can handle the flow, a back up drain, having a manifold off the main return line with a valve to control flow or placing the pump in the DT to the fuge in a very stable and aesthetically pleasing way. I think the diagram is more complicated than it needs to be. I like the visual it gives for the drains but strainers are in a bad place to prevent larger critters from blocking the drains...may actually cause an overflow/ blockage.

What would placing the pump in the display accomplish? The setup pictured works identically to an externally plumbed return pump.

As for the strainers on the drains, what critters do suppose would cover the outlets that would make these a problem over any other return system? The diagram above does have redundancy on the drains and operates in essentially the same manner a Herbie would.

This setup has no more risk than a Herbie.

 

[Radman73]

when I started my 75 I was told that I didn’t need a sump and could do it with a canister filter. Fast forward 3 years and I’m in need of a refugium. I have empty 29 and a 10 gallon tank. I wanted to put this above the display and let gravity to feed back into the dt.

Is this possible and equipment suggestions if possible. Thank you.

I have a 75gal refugium in my garage. Biggest thing to account for is overflow capacity in the sump. I only have a 40 breeder for a 220 DT. So, it is tight and I do have to stay on top of where my outlets are pointed to make sure they siphon break quickly. One of the many things on my to do list is to drill siphon breaks lol! I just feed the fuge from my in sump return. Plenty powerful to handle DT flow and fuge flow.

But, it's nice having the extra water volume. It's also where water changes are done and soon where dosing will be done. I also have my chiller setup in the garage and it circulates water through the fuge.

I considered putting it above the DT level but didn't want the hassle of putting water that high.

 

[Ray Laneville]

I'm going to have a sump AND an overhead refugium. I have just set up a used 90g setup I bought. Came with a proclear 125 wet/dry filter (obsolete style) that I'm using for a sump right now. On Friday I'm obtaining a 45g tank that I will put baffles in for a sump. Then I'll mount the proclear above the DT, separate pump to refugium overflowing into DT. I'm pretty excited about doing it. Should be able to have nice constant supply of pods to DT. If power goes off, no worries about overflow.

 

[sfin52]

The refugium is going to be drilled drained into the dt. The dt is unable to be drilled. It is what it is. I understand the reason of have a sump and think it is a good idea. My next tank will have one.

So at this point we have a discussion about external and internal pumps pumping water into the the refugium. What’s pros and cons to each one. Thanks for the help

 

[Trueblue17]

when I started my 75 I was told that I didn’t need a sump and could do it with a canister filter. Fast forward 3 years and I’m in need of a refugium. I have empty 29 and a 10 gallon tank. I wanted to put this above the display and let gravity to feed back into the dt.

Is this possible and equipment suggestions if possible. Thank you.

this is my 55gal with 10 gal over head sump , I use a rena filstar canister to take from DT and pump up to sump , it goes through sump chambers and out last chamber through 3 -1 inch holes I drilled in side of 10 gal,and back to DT by gravity through hoses going to 3 corners of my DT , it works awesome and has been running for 2 years now no problems, and if power goes out it only drains last chamber in which the DT has enough room to take up the small amount of extra water ,