Refugium for a 12g nano?

[glb]

I have low ph in my nano (7.7-8.0) because of excess co2. I live in south Florida so I can't leave windows open. I don't have a skimmer so I can't use a co2 scrubber. The corals are doing fine overall. So a refugium seems to be the only alternative. My sump area doesn't have a clear back like some of the newer models so it can't really go in there. The tank is in my bedroom so having a visible light on all night would be a problem. Are there any external refugiums for a nano that anyone's heard of?

 

[Ddavis]

I honestly am not sure what a refugium would do for you. Are all of your other water parameters alright? If so I might not worry as much about PH. I have had corals adapt over time to both very high and very low PH. Big quick swings are a problem. The other question is how you are measuring PH. If it is a liquid test kit and not a good probe I would suspect the kit first.

If you absolutely want a refugium I would think you will have to come up with a design yourself because most hang on back refugiums are too large. In my 125 the algae I grow in the refugium actually changes the PH as well and my theory would be that by adding one to a 12 gallon tank is asking for more swings in overall chemistry. More water volume is good but then we get into needing protein skimmers etc.

One experiment you could try would be to make a DIY co2 scrubber. Buy a small air pump and put it inside of a plastic container that has a sealable lid. Drill small air holes in the container and place soda lime which can be ordered from bulk reef supply all around the airpump so the incoming air is co2 filtered. Have an airline that then goes into a airstone in your aquarium.

I have some other thoughts but lets stop with this for now.


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[Rob in Puyallup]

I have a HOB fuge on my standard 10 gallon reef tank. It only holds about a half gallon of water. It has three compartments. I have chaetomorpha and caulerpa macro algae, aragonite sand, a bag of Purigen, a chunk of Polyfilter and gobs of pods in it.

There is a compact fluorescent over it. It's on 24 hours a day. I barely notice the light.

Check out "refugiums" on Ebay or Amazon, you'll find them there. You can also find small powerheads for them on these sites.

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[glb]

Thanks everyone!

 

[glb]

I like the idea of the co2 scrubber. That's the first one I've heard of that doesn't work with a skimmer, which I don't have. Do you have several holes in the lid and do you just run the air tube out of one of them and into the tank?

 

[Ddavis]

Co2 scrubber

I like the idea of the co2 scrubber. That's the first one I've heard of that doesn't work with a skimmer, which I don't have. Do you have several holes in the lid and do you just run the air tube out of one of them and into the tank?

The only thing that a skimmer is used for with a co2 scrubber is we clean the air incoming that makes the bubbles inside of the skimmer. I actually thought of an easier design after posting. The challenge we are trying to overcome is that we want co2 scrubbed air to gas exchange inside of your aquarium versus room air. By placing the air pump inside of a container of soda lime you are ensuring that its incoming air is scrubbed. To answer your question I believe what you describe will work.

A better design:
Drill a Gatorade or other rigid bottle once at the bottom large enough for an airline tube to fit in and once in the lid again just large enough for an airline tube. Insert airline tube in the two holes you just drilled. This will allow air to come from the air pump into the bottom and out through the hole on the top. You can try to silicone the airline in place but you might néed something stronger like epoxy, we need an air tight seal so the air will flow through the bottle. Fill it with soda lime and put the outgoing tube some where in your aquarium with an air stone.

You might need to come up with some sort of filter pad at the top because soda lime has fine dust that might clog your air stone but I am not sure this is needed. If the bubbles slow down I would do this and replace the air stone.

If you decide to build one of these post pictures and let us know the results. In my larger tank a co2 scrubber works wonders but I have a skimmer.

 

[Ddavis]

I agree that refugiums a are beneficial in lowering nitrates in an aquarium. However, if what we are trying to control is PH a refugium may actually make this problem worse. With your cheato getting light 24hrs. Day you have the ph level with your corals getting light during the day followed by a lower ph level because your cheato is getting light though the night. The one reason most people run refugiums with a reverse light cycle is to offset the ph change. If what is described here is correct and there is too much co2 in the air a refugium will not improve the situation.

All science aside as long as your corals are happy I would not worry about it. You should be able to tell if your tank is happy.

 

[glb]

I agree that refugiums a are beneficial in lowering nitrates in an aquarium. However, if what we are trying to control is PH a refugium may actually make this problem worse. With your cheato getting light 24hrs. Day you have the ph level with your corals getting light during the day followed by a lower ph level because your cheato is getting light though the night. The one reason most people run refugiums with a reverse light cycle is to offset the ph change. If what is described here is correct and there is too much co2 in the air a refugium will not improve the situation.

All science aside as long as your corals are happy I would not worry about it. You should be able to tell if your tank is happy.

You're absolutely right. My nitrates are ok, so the DIY scrubber seems to be the answer. Where can I get line?

Also, my zoas aren't doing well. My Florida ricordea, gsp's and acan lords are fine. The zoas have been in there the longest, so I'm wondering if over time, the low ph has taken its toll. I have a digital ph reader which is carefully calibrated so I know it's accurate. Thank you for all the advice!

 

[Ddavis]

I am talking about flexible airline tubing and it can come from the pet store

 

[glb]

How about lime? I have an air pump and tubing.

 

[Ddavis]

Ok sorry about that. Go to bulk reef supply (http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/brs-color-changing-medical-grade-co2-absorbent.html) and although they make you buy a lot it will last quite a while with your setup. The other option would be to find a local fish store (not one of the chains but a saltwater store) or post to your local reef club. I looked on ebay but it does not look like anyone is selling it there. There is a post on another forum about finding cheaper soda lime but for now given what you are trying to correct and the fact that the bulk reef supply stuff works I would suggest trying that first.

I wanted to ask some other chemistry questions about your water given what you are seeing with your zoanthids. What is your alkalinity and how are you measuring it? Have you double checked it with a second type of test kit? Do you dose essential elements, two part, kalkwasser or phyto? Do you directly feed your zoanthids and has anything changed recently?

I had something similar to what you described unrelated going on in my tank a year ago and dosing phyto, essential elements and amino acid to my corals has led to great growth.

 

[glb]

I dose mg 3ml/week, dose calcium only when needed because it's always ok. Alk I use API. I have Red Sea alk but find it to be imprecise. I had stopped dosing strontium, molybdenum and iodine because I don't have tests for them. That was way after the problems started. Some of the zoas are just disappearing and some are missing their skirts. I use Seachem buffer to raise alk if needed but that's usually not necessary as the weekly water changes keep it up. Should I start testing everyday for a while to see if things are fluctuating more than I think?

 

[glb]

My alk is always between 8-9.5. Right now it's at 8. I may add some buffer to bring it up a little.

 

[glb]

I don't use kalk because I've read that it's so strong that it's easy to overdo it in a nano. The calcium is kent and the mg is Brightwell aquatics.

 

[glb]

I feed them Oyster Feast 1ml/week.

 

[Ddavis]

I keep my alk a bit on the high side around 8.5-9 but I do not have a nano tank. Every thing else seems alright but the one thought might be to try essential elements by kent if correcting the ph does not work. If you are doing water changes with one of the reef salts they usually have essential elements in them as well but these darn soft corals sop up anything they can.

Please stay in touch and let me know how it goes.

Here is a picture of my tank:

 

[glb]

I keep my alk a bit on the high side around 8.5-9 but I do not have a nano tank. Every thing else seems alright but the one thought might be to try essential elements by kent if correcting the ph does not work. If you are doing water changes with one of the reef salts they usually have essential elements in them as well but these darn soft corals sop up anything they can.

Please stay in touch and let me know how it goes.

Here is a picture of my tank:

Beautiful tank!! I actually use purified seawater from a lfs. I have all along with no problems. I use ro water for topoffs. I'll check out the kent supplement. Thanks!!