Refugium Refusal : Why would you NOT run a refugium?

[Greybeard]

Check out this vendor. Tampa Bay Saltwater and Gulf Live Rock are true environmental stewards.

No argument from me.. I even mentioned Tampa Bay myself. Did business with them years ago, and was quite happy with the product.

From their site, today:
Due to Covid 19 We are no longer accepting or shipping orders. Tampa Bay Saltwater

Gulf Live Rock appears to be shipping... their smallest sample of live sand, 15lbs, $50, shipped 3 day (to me, at least). Too high for me.

Here's an idea... put 2lbs of good, fresh, live sand or small rubble rock in a bag, wet, stick it in a USPS 2 day flat rate box for $8.50, and charge $15 for it. You'd sell TONS of sand.

 

[Bob LI]

I don't have a sump, so I set up a "mini-refugium" in my HOB Aquaclear. I need to empy about 2/3 of the Chaeto every 2 weeks, or so. I run reverse lighting (the "refugium" light is off in the photo.)

 

[ThRoewer]

It seems a lot of people have a wrong idea what a refugium is actually for.
It isn't an algae tank for nutrient removal (though that can be a beneficial side effect) but rather a space where pods and other beneficial critters can find refuge (get it?) from predation and reproduce to repopulate the main tank.
This doesn't have to be a fish free tank, or needs to have Chaeto or other macro algae. The fish in there should just not be going after the pods and critters. For example, I have a 20 gallon Jawfish tank that doubles as refugium for one of my breeding systems due to its high layer of coarse gravel and the fact that my Tiger Jawfish have little interest in the little critters that populate the gravel.

 

[Subsea]

No argument from me.. I even mentioned Tampa Bay myself. Did business with them years ago, and was quite happy with the product.

From their site, today:
Due to Covid 19 We are no longer accepting or shipping orders. Tampa Bay Saltwater

Gulf Live Rock appears to be shipping... their smallest sample of live sand, 15lbs, $50, shipped 3 day (to me, at least). Too high for me.

Here's an idea... put 2lbs of good, fresh, live sand or small rubble rock in a bag, wet, stick it in a USPS 2 day flat rate box for $8.50, and charge $15 for it. You'd sell TONS of sand.

In Austin, I am three days ground from Tampa to Austin which sometimes is too long even for macro in a bag.

The 2 day ground rate for live sand option for you should be a good deal. Dan is a mom & pop operation. It depends on the volume of labor required for multiple small sales. You should discuss that with him. Actually, he peruses the post on this website, but in five years has never posted.

 

[atoll]

Deep sand beds went out of style, for valid reasons... but with them went the market for pods, worms, live sand (real live sand, not the stuff that comes in a plastic bag). Inland Aquatics is gone now, GARF is still around, but has been treading water since Leroy passed. Their web site was a sorry mess in the 90's... today, it looks the same IPSF is still around, but their selection of 'critters' has dropped dramatically. Companies like Tampa Bay Saltwater, you used to be able to buy a scoop of sand, straight off of the sea floor, overnighted in a bag of water, crawling with life, for a reasonable cost. They're not shipping. Who knows if they ever will again.

All the debate I see about 'wet rock, live rock, dry rock'. I haven't seen any REAL wet rock, overnighted straight from the sea, with years, or decades of marine growth... in many years.

The current 'popular' methods don't include bio diversity. Folks want to start sterile, adding ONLY what they wish, to a dry rock, bare bottom system. Trying to keep out undesirables. With that being the popular model, vendors of sea floor mud and critters just aren't going to make it. Add in all the 'save the planet' folks wanting to eliminate any harvesting of natural resources... I don't see that era coming back.

 

[Subsea]

It seems a lot of people have a wrong idea what a refugium is actually for.
It isn't an algae tank for nutrient removal (though that can be a beneficial side effect) but rather a space where pods and other beneficial critters can find refuge (get it?) from predation and reproduce to repopulate the main tank.
This doesn't have to be a fish free tank, or needs to have Chaeto or other macro algae. The fish in there should just not be going after the pods and critters. For example, I have a 20 gallon Jawfish tank that doubles as refugium for one of my breeding systems due to its high layer of coarse gravel and the fact that my Tiger Jawfish have little interest in the little critters that populate the gravel.

In display tank, I have used a small bag of bio balls that were seeded with pods in refugium than rotated every week to reintroduce pods in display. As been pointed out, pods will make it thru return pump, up from sump into the display.

 

[ThRoewer]

In display tank, I have used a small bag of bio balls that were seeded with pods in refugium than rotated every week to reintroduce pods in display. As been pointed out, pods will make it thru return pump, up from sump into the display.

Pods have no problems with return pumps. I even had a 10 mm baby percula going through without harm.

 

[samash12]

If people have pods in their fuge how do the pods cope with a protein skimmer in the same compartment? I've only got the one compartment in the sump which I could have pods living, but the Bubble Magnus is running in there too

 

[gerajn01]

I voted "other". I have space for a refugium and have been actively attempting to keep Chaeto. It's constantly dying on me; falling apart and sinking. Idk what else to do. Has appropriate lighting 24hrs/7days a week. I'm now attempting to rubberband the chaeto to a pickleball to help encourage it to spin and grow. Phosphates and Nitrates are present. I'll gladly take advice.

Jordn Gerardot

 

[Tyler White]

I voted other. The only reason I vote against them right now is that they're not fully explained to the new reefer and too many run them too early stripping their dry rock dry sand of virtually all nutrients and then boom dinos.
Algae barn splits their refugium starter pack up a little while but that still isn't enough to get biodiversity to where it needs to be to keep dinos away at that low of nutrients. Seen it too many times.

 

[LegendaryCG]

Of course nutrient export is a popular reason for having a fuge or alternative algae reactor but don’t ignore that they also reduce co2 present in the water, increase oxygenation and raise pH. Plants are good for your tank and probably the simplest natural filter available.

 

[guysmiley]

iv got a fuge but its messy way to much detritus builds up and i get lots of algae growing on the surface and its a pain in the butt lol ..my new builds going algae turf scrubber but im not sure i will even need it yet as i will be using a large size bubble magus filter roller and BM curve 9 skimmer .

 

[Subsea]

I voted "other". I have space for a refugium and have been actively attempting to keep Chaeto. It's constantly dying on me; falling apart and sinking. Idk what else to do. Has appropriate lighting 24hrs/7days a week. I'm now attempting to rubberband the chaeto to a pickleball to help encourage it to spin and grow. Phosphates and Nitrates are present. I'll gladly take advice.

Jordn Gerardot

I suspect you are depleted in trace minerals of which iron is a major player. Check out ChartoGrow. I consider it beneficial for all photosynthetic critters, including coral. I combine this with clear ammonia for a source of pure nitrogen. I also would suggest a 12-14 hr refugium light cycle opposite of your display tank lighting.

 

[lefkonj]

Tried and tried to get it to work just gave up and replaced my sump. No fuge, bigger space for skimmer and more water flow.

 

[Buckeye Ken]

I have a small refugium in a 20 g sump for my 40 breeder DT. The tank was started about six months ago. I bought some sea lettuce from IPSF a few weeks ago and it has been growing well. I've noticed a drop in PO4 which I have to credit the sea lettuce. I have no corals yet so the discussion here about perhaps not needing nutrient reduction on a mature tank with corals has been helpful info.

 

[James_O]

1. Why don't you have a refugium running on your reef tank?

Don’t have the funds or the space. Really wish I did though! It sounds super cool.

 

[rossco]

I have zero excess nutrients and have to dose nitrate and phosphate despite feeding heavy. Why would I add chaeto just to remove nutrients I’m deliberately adding?

My situation exactly. Well maybe we can call it medium feeding. I do have a lit area in my sump though.

 

[Butcher333]

I have a refugium running. I use it for macro and hermit crabs. I use it to keep equipment in etc.

A reason I would not use one would be if the tank is an AIO or was serving a purpose other than as my main display. etc. Situational.

 

[ThRoewer]

If people have pods in their fuge how do the pods cope with a protein skimmer in the same compartment? I've only got the one compartment in the sump which I could have pods living, but the Bubble Magnus is running in there too

A needle wheel skimmer is usually the worst for pods as it beats them up but no skimmer is really good for them. Ideally the skimmer should be in the chamber where the water from the tank arrives, before any other filtration.
The refugium should drain straight into the chamber with the return pump.

 

[Spinal Compass]

I have 6 tanks and they all have a refugium. They also all have a protein skimmer. These are the heart and lungs of a reef tank. Don't try and grow coral without them because coral is too expensive compared to the small investment of a refugium. You may get away without having a refugium for a while but time will catch up to you like high cholesterol and cardiopulmonary disease.