Refugiums... explain it to me like I'm 5

[Miller535]

Okay so it's more about light than quantity of chaeto. I run mine for 10 hours too, opposite my tank lights. So when I get levels where I want should I be reducing the hours the lights are on to decrease the growth?

It is more about light, but some folks run into the issue where even a reduced light period is still removing too much, and then they reduce their chaeto more also. Less Chaeto means less nutrients can be absorbed.

 

[muzikalmatt]

Okay so it's more about light than quantity of chaeto. I run mine for 10 hours too, opposite my tank lights. So when I get levels where I want should I be reducing the hours the lights are on to decrease the growth?

I think once you reach the nutrients levels you want I would hold fast with everything you're doing at that point (refugium photoperiod, feeding regimen, etc). I've found that my nutrients stay pretty stable at 5ppm/0.03ppm with ~12 hours of refugium lighting (and all of my other husbandry routines). Keep an eye on your nutrients and if they start dropping lower than you want you can dial back on the photoperiod.

 

[muzikalmatt]

It is more about light, but some folks run into the issue where even a reduced light period is still removing too much, and then they reduce their chaeto more also. Less Chaeto means less nutrients can be absorbed.

This is a great point. I know BRStv mentioned that on the BRS160 tank they had to dial back the refugium lighting to only run a few days a week otherwise the nutrients would bottom out. No amount of additional feeding could keep the chaeto from stripping the nutrients from the water. That was a pretty huge refugium though with lots of chaeto and high-powered lighting.

 

[New&no clue]

Alright I'm going to continue to monitor my Phosphates and Nitrates. I would actually like to feed more as I have an elegance coral in the tank that I think needs more to eat. But it seems like it will take a little experimenting with lighting periods and amount of chaeto to get it where I need it to be.

Thanks for all the great advice, I think I am at least comfortable now with whats going on.

 

[Paul B]

Refugiums... explain it to me like I'm 5
Suppose you live in a nice clean, neat house and you like to have friends come over to play in it.

But, living with you, you also have an old, really nasty Aunt who smells and eats with her feet and uses foul language. But she is easy and cheap and to feed as she will eat anything.

You want her around so you don't have to make too many trips to take out the garbage because she eats all the leftovers. (She is also your Mother's Sister)

She doesn't mind living in a small spare room off to the side where no one can see her and you can slide the leftovers and garbage under the door to her.

Thats a Refugium.

 

[New&no clue]

Refugiums... explain it to me like I'm 5
Suppose you live in a nice clean, neat house and you like to have friends come over to play in it.

But, living with you, you also have an old, really nasty Aunt who smells and eats with her feet and uses foul language. But she is easy and cheap and to feed as she will eat anything.

You want her around so you don't have to make too many trips to take out the garbage because she eats all the leftovers. (She is also your Mother's Sister)

She doesn't mind living in a small spare room off to the side where no one can see her and you can slide the leftovers and garbage under the door to her.

Thats a Refugium.

YOU NAILED IT! ;Hilarious ;Hilarious ;Hilarious

 

[muzikalmatt]

Refugiums... explain it to me like I'm 5
Suppose you live in a nice clean, neat house and you like to have friends come over to play in it.

But, living with you, you also have an old, really nasty Aunt who smells and eats with her feet and uses foul language. But she is easy and cheap and to feed as she will eat anything.

You want her around so you don't have to make too many trips to take out the garbage because she eats all the leftovers. (She is also your Mother's Sister)

She doesn't mind living in a small spare room off to the side where no one can see her and you can slide the leftovers and garbage under the door to her.

Thats a Refugium.

Hahaha! This is the greatest analogy I've ever read!

 

[Webslinger]

You can purchase pod's to get it going. I've always had a fuge but i wouldn't think it would take long depending on your live rock.

 

[Olefreebe]

Great thread! Very informative.

 

[Miller535]

Hahaha! This is the greatest analogy I've ever read!

Exactly what I was going to say

 

[FishingLovingSons]

Refugiums... explain it to me like I'm 5
Suppose you live in a nice clean, neat house and you like to have friends come over to play in it.

But, living with you, you also have an old, really nasty Aunt who smells and eats with her feet and uses foul language. But she is easy and cheap and to feed as she will eat anything.

You want her around so you don't have to make too many trips to take out the garbage because she eats all the leftovers. (She is also your Mother's Sister)

She doesn't mind living in a small spare room off to the side where no one can see her and you can slide the leftovers and garbage under the door to her.

Thats a Refugium.

Perfect!

 

[Kev The Fish Keeper]

Great question, not that I can explain it, but I'm learning from all the responses. I find myself following what more knowledgeable keepers do, but don't know the why. Great thread.

 

[DiZASTiX]

What most people mean when they say refugium is that they grow cheato and maybe have some pods in a little compartment of their sump. Where a "true" refugium is usually attached to but not in the main system. Chaeto is like any other plant, it needs nitrogen (Nitrate and Phosphate) and trace elements to grow. So when you grow this in your system, it pulls it out of the water. And when you throw away the extra growth, you have officially removed those nutrients fromt he sysetm.

Dissenting opinion. A refuge need not be disconnected from another, only protected from that place. This is the same viewpoint Julian Sprung held in his MACNA discussion:

Origin

nounBIOLOGY
noun: refugium; plural noun: refugia
an area in which a population of organisms can survive through a period of unfavorable conditions, especially glaciation.

1950s: from Latin, literally ‘place of refuge’.

I'm most concerned about the deprivation of the word, for which a refuge anywhere is a refugium. If you throw a bunch of Naso Tangs in your sump, then that sump is no longer a refugium for algae (if the tangs eat that kind of algae), but might still be a refugium for the tangs per see, as the tangs are protected from other predators in elsewhere in the system.

 

[AquAttila]

I had a refugium setup in my sump for some time and it was a disaster... harvesting is a pain and to be honest it just didn't make a difference for me for reducing nitrates or phosphates. I purchased an algae scrubber and that has done the trick, plus it is much easier to maintain IMO.

 

[Ethan Zier]

Hey not really a word of caution or anything but keep in mind the refugium will hike up your pH if you light the refugium during the same photo period as your DT. And on the same token you could help stabilize your pH if you light your refugium durring the DT lights out time. (Not suggesting you need help with pH)

Personally I run a 75g frag tank with a decent amount of mixed corals, I also have a box of chaeto growing IN my tank. That's why my pH drops from 8.22 at the end of the day down to 7.92 by the time my lazy butt gets outta bed. I'll be adding a external cheato canister in the future for this reason.

Every time you remove chaeto by hand your removing future nutrients from algae.

 

[Nanorock1970]

I think we all need to call it a macro algae scrubber. I agree that it is not really a refugium unless your purpose is also to keep pods and other critters safe from the DT. Cheato, your algae "plant" uses the nutrients to grow. In that process it takes away from the DT so other "plants"(algae) don't have the nutrients to grow. The Cheato "Locks-up" the nutrients so they are still part of the DT until you harvest it or it dies off. When you harvest, you will need to experiment with anything from 1/3 to 2/3 removal of the Cheato. This removes the nutrients from your system. IF Cheato dies in your system, it will release the nutrient uptake back into your DT. Controlling the export is through the growth rate of the Cheato and removing the growth. Reduce light or nutrients to slow the growth. For a more stable DT, it is recommended to run the light for the Cheato opposite of the DT so that you have constant photosynthesis in the tank for a more stable PH.

Ok maybe this is not a five year old explanation but maybe it helps