Remote Sump Question (NO GRAVITY)

[coreytrv]

This might give you some ideas. It was a Nano project I did with a Surge filter. Water was pumped up to the filter, went through the chambers and entered two chambers that used a Bell siphon in each. Each chamber was filled with Bio Balls. As each chamber filled up the Bell siphon would drain the chamber in a matter of seconds, dumping water into the tank with a surge. Because the rapid action of the filling and emptying of the chambers the Bio balls stayed clean and the air exchange was at it's optimal value.

@TangerineSpeedo This is really cool. So the blue is the siphon line?

What would activate the siphon on intervals to create the surge?

What's the function of that upside down 3-lined manifold? Are the bottom fittings open?

Lot of questions, never seen this!

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

@TangerineSpeedo This is really cool. So the blue is the siphon line?

What would activate the siphon on intervals to create the surge?

What's the function of that upside down 3-lined manifold? Are the bottom fittings open?

Lot of questions, never seen this!

Yes, the bottom is open. Look up the physics of bell siphon. Basically as the water rises in the chamber it also rises in the tube until it gets to the arch then a siphon starts and empties the chamber. The overflow holes in the top of the chamber were made so I could restrict them so the two chambers would fill at different intervals. In the end I didn’t need to do that though because it became random by default. Both chambers started out with the same double siphon, but you can't see it in the rear chamber because of the bio-balls. Each chamber was about 2ish gallons and that would empty in the bottom tank in about 15 secs. I had one enter the tank at the lower end and another splashing over the rocks at the top of the water line. It was my experiment to make a actual tide pool tank.

 

[coreytrv]

Looking for guidance on plumbing a remote sump into a 500 gallon reef tank that will be filtered via the fish room in the garage, some 30'+ away. All single story, gravity feed not an option.

Filtration is a bead filter, closed loop.

Initially I had planned a sump in the attic, above the DT which would fill by pulling supply off the return manifold at the tank, then gravity draining back into the top.

However, since the attic is unconditioned, and it's pretty tight up there- plus the volume of my DT. Thinking a larger, remote sump would be better.

My stab at this would be to pull supply from the filter, through a ball valve, and behind a motorized ball valve / solenoid.
Use water level sensor that would close the supply valve, if water level got too high (ie overflow).
Would need a way to keep return pump from running dry- do the DC pumps automatically shut off when dry? or maybe a controllable one that would be shut down if high alarm detected?



Looking for any tips! Thanks.

Ok based on a lot of feedback about the difficulty of matching inflow and outflow with (2) pumps, I tweaked the plan.

How about the remote sump in the garage, has a gravity drain, and pumps into the sump above the Display Tank (DT) tank, which also will gravity drain into the DT.

Like a cascading sump.

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

I think if you make your Sump 1 with overflows like a DT you are on the right track. No need for chambers it would just be a equalizing tank. You could have different flow rates on different pumps and is long as your overflows can handle the input, you should be alright. I would do a practical test with 3 cheap petco tanks to make sure.

 

[coreytrv]

Ok thanks for the feedback, new version of the plumbing plan below.

Changes here are:

Pseudo equalizing tank with suggestions from @TangerineSpeedo.

Plan here is to use baffles to create a surge chamber, to help with flow and oxygenation. Plus I want to make sure the water flows through sump to DT, and not inadvertently cycling sump water back through sump.

• Equalizing Tank in attic.
• Herbie overflow to Sump 1 (skimmer)
• Sump 1 gravity drain --> Sump 2 (refugium)
• Pump Back up to equalizing / surge tank.

I'm thinking Herbie overflow on 2" line for the drain to remote sump. As I don't want to drill (3) 2" holes for bean animal.

Target flow through Sump will be approx 2,400 GPH*.
*375 DT + 40 sump + 40 sump + 40 sump = 495 total volume.
Target through sump 3-5x turnover = 1,485 - 2,475 GPH

Welcoming feedback! Thanks!

 

[coreytrv]

UPDATE. I have reworked this design, due to potential challenges in balance inflow and outflow on (2) gravity drains and (2) separate filter systems. (Came up during design of ATO systems)

Instead, I think I am going to axe the gravity drain from the sump to the DT, and replace with a closed loop pump.

This way, gravity drain to garage sump will balance itself, and closed loop from attic sump to DT won't have an effect on that system's water level.