Removing GHA from my sandbed

[saullman]

I have been battling this stuff for several months now. Everytime I think I kicked it, it comes back. My last attempt was taking out one rock at a time, putting it into a small storage bin with salt water from my tank and scrubbing with a toothbrush. Then I siphoned half of my sandbed ( was told not to do it all at once), and after that did a 20% water change. The GHA went away for a little while, but seems to come back after several weeks.

Now the GHA seems to be more on the sandbed then on the rocks. My sandbed is crushed coral. In the past I have been removing it manually with my hand buy pulling up the larger clumps and disposing of it. Then I will siphon my sandbed one half at a time (JBJ 45 gal AIO).

So what is the best way to get rid of GHA from my sandbed?
Should I consider getting rid of my sandbed all together?
Please help me R2R community.

 

[MombasaLionfish]

What kind of water are you adding to your tank tap water can be loaded with stuff that alge loves if you don't already have a water filter I would get one.

 

[saullman]

No, I buy all of my water from my LFS. I go to WWC to be exact so I know it's not that.

 

[MombasaLionfish]

Is your tank near a window?

 

[saintsreturn]

OK, so here is my opinion and my experience in the shortest amount of typing possible...

The you already knows: 1) check to make sure you are not over feeding, 2) check your water source, 3) check your light schedule 4) if you are soaking your food (such as vitamins and stuff) pour cup through fish net to remove unedible nutrients, 5) careful using dry foods... make sure all food gets eaten.

The what i dids and the why i dont have the issue anymore:
1) Siphon the sand bed directly above the algae. you will loose some sand, but you will pull algae mostly
2) relax on the water changes
3) check your ambient light. I was getting way to much light and didnt know it. I bought a cheap webcam and watched the tank. Turns out a window off in the distance was blasting my tank when i wasnt home and that was the area most the algae started in
4) When you siphon your water, run it through a filter sock back into the tank. Pull the algae, not the water.
5) relax on the water changes
6) increase cleaning crew. I switched from snails to crabs and have been much better off. I have some turbos and nec... i cant spell the one that goes in the sand bed but comes out to eat. But basic snails get eaten by crabs so i just bought a ton of crabs and let them work.

Manual removal works best and may get to the point of losing your mind, but when i stopped the aggressive water changes and did my daily manual removal through a sock to keep the water i saw significant progress. Now I will take your rock covered in algae, watch it get all green and strong and then turn colors and die off. I quit chasing numbers and adding "x" with packet "y" to get rid of it. Heck, i even gave up at one point. This is when things got better for me.

Once you know your water is solid, your food is being eaten, your lights are fighting you and your clean up crew is sufficient; the rest will follow. Dont add stuff and stop changing the tanks "happiness" by pulling everything out. Just a toothbrush zip tied to a hose to scrub your rock and a hose to siphon the sand and glass. The source of your problem should be easy to find, and then you just reduce with time and a little effort. Not money, not magic potions, not magic fish... time and effort. Then you will reach the point where all you do is add fresh water to your top off, feed and scrape your glass.

 

[saintsreturn]

No, I buy all of my water from my LFS. I go to WWC to be exact so I know it's not that.

Is your tank near a window?

And for good measure, i will repeat this... Cheap ol camera from amazon or something. Dont focus on the distance from the window.. mine was something like 15' away and i blacked out the large one with curtains that came "wife approved." it was this small 1'x1' window that was pounding my tank all day and i could see my algae pushing from left to right. Bought solar screens and fixed that issue.

Please check this option even if you think its not.

On the water, grab a TDS meter and buy some RODI and check it. Even though i would trust WWC, i trust no one with blind allegiance. Never hurts to rule it out.

GL

 

[saullman]

Is your tank near a window?

No, it's cornered between two interior walks. It does get some natural light during the day but no direct light.

 

[MombasaLionfish]

OK, so here is my opinion and my experience in the shortest amount of typing possible...

The you already knows: 1) check to make sure you are not over feeding, 2) check your water source, 3) check your light schedule 4) if you are soaking your food (such as vitamins and stuff) pour cup through fish net to remove unedible nutrients, 5) careful using dry foods... make sure all food gets eaten.

The what i dids and the why i dont have the issue anymore:
1) Siphon the sand bed directly above the algae. you will loose some sand, but you will pull algae mostly
2) relax on the water changes
3) check your ambient light. I was getting way to much light and didnt know it. I bought a cheap webcam and watched the tank. Turns out a window off in the distance was blasting my tank when i wasnt home and that was the area most the algae started in
4) When you siphon your water, run it through a filter sock back into the tank. Pull the algae, not the water.
5) relax on the water changes
6) increase cleaning crew. I switched from snails to crabs and have been much better off. I have some turbos and nec... i cant spell the one that goes in the sand bed but comes out to eat. But basic snails get eaten by crabs so i just bought a ton of crabs and let them work.

Manual removal works best and may get to the point of losing your mind, but when i stopped the aggressive water changes and did my daily manual removal through a sock to keep the water i saw significant progress. Now I will take your rock covered in algae, watch it get all green and strong and then turn colors and die off. I quit chasing numbers and adding "x" with packet "y" to get rid of it. Heck, i even gave up at one point. This is when things got better for me.

Once you know your water is solid, your food is being eaten, your lights are fighting you and your clean up crew is sufficient; the rest will follow. Dont add stuff and stop changing the tanks "happiness" by pulling everything out. Just a toothbrush zip tied to a hose to scrub your rock and a hose to siphon the sand and glass. The source of your problem should be easy to find, and then you just reduce with time and a little effort. Not money, not magic potions, not magic fish... time and effort. Then you will reach the point where all you do is add fresh water to your top off, feed and scrape your glass.

And for good measure, i will repeat this... Cheap ol camera from amazon or something. Dont focus on the distance from the window.. mine was something like 15' away and i blacked out the large one with curtains that came "wife approved." it was this small 1'x1' window that was pounding my tank all day and i could see my algae pushing from left to right. Bought solar screens and fixed that issue.

Please check this option even if you think its not.

On the water, grab a TDS meter and buy some RODI and check it. Even though i would trust WWC, i trust no one with blind allegiance. Never hurts to rule it out.

GL

+1

 

[saullman]

And for good measure, i will repeat this... Cheap ol camera from amazon or something. Dont focus on the distance from the window.. mine was something like 15' away and i blacked out the large one with curtains that came "wife approved." it was this small 1'x1' window that was pounding my tank all day and i could see my algae pushing from left to right. Bought solar screens and fixed that issue.

Please check this option even if you think its not.

On the water, grab a TDS meter and buy some RODI and check it. Even though i would trust WWC, i trust no one with blind allegiance. Never hurts to rule it out.

GL

What does a TDS meter measure?

 

[saintsreturn]

What does a TDS meter measure?

Total Dissolved Solids. You use this to ensure the water has "0" TDS in RODI water. If you put it in salt water, it will read off the charts because salt is a dissolved solid. You always want to have a baseline of zero before you add salt and go from there. higher number of TDS are believed to contain minerals which promote algae growth.

 

[saintsreturn]

If you take a look at your tank, you see the strongest amount of algae in the front right, and it wraps around the front left to the back, but its not in the back right. This leads me to question a couple of things...

1) Is there rock directly above the back right protecting the sand? If not, does the light its getting push at an angle on the tank directly hitting that front corner.
2) Where do you feed in the tank and where does the food flow to?
3) How long did it take the GHA to grow to that length? Did you leave for a couple days and let someone else feed?
4) Is there more flow in that empty section or less flow, compared to the rest of the tank. It could be your power head is on the left, bouncing off the glass and pushing down and away.
5) Is the GHA on your rock work?

These things matter. GHA loves flow and it doesnt care if the flow changes. In higher flow, it may struggle to attached to the sand. If you do not have GHA on your rocks, it would lead me to believe that either ambient light is feeding the issue more than anything, or the sand area has less flow and the feeding schedule has food blasting through the water column and settling on your sand bed...

I forgot to ask, how old is the tank and did it fully cycle? If its a couple months old (less than 6) and you have been fighting this for months, i would believe that your cycle did not fully finish and your repeat attempts to resolve the issue have kept it in a state of flux.

 

[saullman]

If you take a look at your tank, you see the strongest amount of algae in the front right, and it wraps around the front left to the back, but its not in the back right. This leads me to question a couple of things...

1) Is there rock directly above the back right protecting the sand? If not, does the light its getting push at an angle on the tank directly hitting that front corner.
2) Where do you feed in the tank and where does the food flow to?
3) How long did it take the GHA to grow to that length? Did you leave for a couple days and let someone else feed?
4) Is there more flow in that empty section or less flow, compared to the rest of the tank. It could be your power head is on the left, bouncing off the glass and pushing down and away.
5) Is the GHA on your rock work?

These things matter. GHA loves flow and it doesnt care if the flow changes. In higher flow, it may struggle to attached to the sand. If you do not have GHA on your rocks, it would lead me to believe that either ambient light is feeding the issue more than anything, or the sand area has less flow and the feeding schedule has food blasting through the water column and settling on your sand bed...

I forgot to ask, how old is the tank and did it fully cycle? If its a couple months old (less than 6) and you have been fighting this for months, i would believe that your cycle did not fully finish and your repeat attempts to resolve the issue have kept it in a state of flux.

1- yes, I have a huge rock on the right side of the tank where my magnet is that seems to be protecting that right corner of the tank. There is currently no algae in the back right corner. However there is algae in the back center where there is a gap in the rock work.
2- my wife feeds the tank once a day. She feeds LRS and she said that the food goes all over the tank because the MP10 is on when she feeds and also the 2 returns. I am feeding a small strip of seaweed about every 3 days. I have 3 fish and a cleaner shrimp.
3- The heavier algae on the right front side took approx 1 month to grow. The left front is about 2 weeks. I did not go away and my wife is feeding the tank when I'm at work.
4- As far as flow, I have the MP10 that you see along with the 2 return nozzles that are both providing surface agitation.
5- The GHA is just starting to grow on the bottom front of the rocks. I have taken the rocks out of the tank twice and scrubbed them with a toothbrush.

The tank is about 1.5 years old and is fully cycled.

 

[saullman]

OK, so here is my opinion and my experience in the shortest amount of typing possible...

The you already knows: 1) check to make sure you are not over feeding, 2) check your water source, 3) check your light schedule 4) if you are soaking your food (such as vitamins and stuff) pour cup through fish net to remove unedible nutrients, 5) careful using dry foods... make sure all food gets eaten.

The what i dids and the why i dont have the issue anymore:
1) Siphon the sand bed directly above the algae. you will loose some sand, but you will pull algae mostly
2) relax on the water changes
3) check your ambient light. I was getting way to much light and didnt know it. I bought a cheap webcam and watched the tank. Turns out a window off in the distance was blasting my tank when i wasnt home and that was the area most the algae started in
4) When you siphon your water, run it through a filter sock back into the tank. Pull the algae, not the water.
5) relax on the water changes
6) increase cleaning crew. I switched from snails to crabs and have been much better off. I have some turbos and nec... i cant spell the one that goes in the sand bed but comes out to eat. But basic snails get eaten by crabs so i just bought a ton of crabs and let them work.

Manual removal works best and may get to the point of losing your mind, but when i stopped the aggressive water changes and did my daily manual removal through a sock to keep the water i saw significant progress. Now I will take your rock covered in algae, watch it get all green and strong and then turn colors and die off. I quit chasing numbers and adding "x" with packet "y" to get rid of it. Heck, i even gave up at one point. This is when things got better for me.

Once you know your water is solid, your food is being eaten, your lights are fighting you and your clean up crew is sufficient; the rest will follow. Dont add stuff and stop changing the tanks "happiness" by pulling everything out. Just a toothbrush zip tied to a hose to scrub your rock and a hose to siphon the sand and glass. The source of your problem should be easy to find, and then you just reduce with time and a little effort. Not money, not magic potions, not magic fish... time and effort. Then you will reach the point where all you do is add fresh water to your top off, feed and scrape your glass.

When you say relax on the water changes what do you mean exactly? Right now I am doing 20% water changes every 2 weeks.

As far as lighting schedule I have an AI Prime HD that I run for 8 hours a day. I run 3 hours of whites and all blues the rest of the time

In terms of a CUC. I did the exact opposite of what you did. I had a bunch of small hermits that I got rid of because they kept eating all of my snails. Now I have about 7 snails. A few nassarius, some turbos, and a few trochus.

 

[saintsreturn]

1- yes, I have a huge rock on the right side of the tank where my magnet is that seems to be protecting that right corner of the tank. There is currently no algae in the back right corner. However there is algae in the back center where there is a gap in the rock work.
2- my wife feeds the tank once a day. She feeds LRS and she said that the food goes all over the tank because the MP10 is on when she feeds and also the 2 returns. I am feeding a small strip of seaweed about every 3 days. I have 3 fish and a cleaner shrimp.
3- The heavier algae on the right front side took approx 1 month to grow. The left front is about 2 weeks. I did not go away and my wife is feeding the tank when I'm at work.
4- As far as flow, I have the MP10 that you see along with the 2 return nozzles that are both providing surface agitation.
5- The GHA is just starting to grow on the bottom front of the rocks. I have taken the rocks out of the tank twice and scrubbed them with a toothbrush.

The tank is about 1.5 years old and is fully cycled.

Good to hear its fully cycled. You may be surprised at how often that is not the case. If your flow is all top side for water agitation, you may be getting nutrients laying on your sand bed from feeding for fish waste that is not staying in the water column for export.

When you say relax on the water changes what do you mean exactly? Right now I am doing 20% water changes every 2 weeks.

As far as lighting schedule I have an AI Prime HD that I run for 8 hours a day. I run 3 hours of whites and all blues the rest of the time

In terms of a CUC. I did the exact opposite of what you did. I had a bunch of small hermits that I got rid of because they kept eating all of my snails. Now I have about 7 snails. A few nassarius, some turbos, and a few trochus.

There is no right answer in my opinion on snails versus crabs. I love snails and preferred them, but i switched when i saw the last remaining crabs i had do some work on the algae. The next tank will most likely be a snail tank again.

So when i say relax, i say it vaguely because i didnt know where you were at. Try going to 20% monthly or even less. I was 10% a week, then 20%ish every two weeks and now I am less than that. With a smaller tank, WC's do more for nutrient export than they do for my system with a full sump and skimmer. That said, WC's also add nutrients back into the system. Some we can measure and some we can not. These nutrients caused my GHA to spike every time i did a WC, about 24 hours later. This is why i say to relax the schedule a bit so you have time to work the problem.

What i would do, for now, it take a 5 gal bucket and tie a filter sock to the top. Place a hose in it and syphon out the algae. Pour the water back into the system when done. Do this in place of your next two WC's. *watch your corals and water tests* with your smaller system (not being rude about it, just thinking about my days with the 75 and 29) you want to ensure you do not see a nitrate or ammonia spike. If you see them coming up, do a 3-5g water change. When you are ready to move to your rocks, do the same thing with the bucket, but add a toothbrush to the end of the water side and scrub your rocks. This doesnt have to be aggressive, just break up the algae.

Increase your snails. 7 snails for a 45 is on the much lighter end of the CUC spectrum. I would start by adding 10, a combo of trochus, turbin and margarita. See how they do and add more as desired. Be careful not to add to many in the beginning as they may starve while they hunt for food. If your tank is that old and established, maybe get an Urchin. I love mine and he does the best work.

For the sand bed, either redirect some flow to get lower in the water column, or add more nessarius snails, small conch or possible a star. Something needs to be down there eating left overs that is feeding the algae.

 

[WMR]

OK, so here is my opinion and my experience in the shortest amount of typing possible...

The you already knows: 1) check to make sure you are not over feeding, 2) check your water source, 3) check your light schedule 4) if you are soaking your food (such as vitamins and stuff) pour cup through fish net to remove unedible nutrients, 5) careful using dry foods... make sure all food gets eaten.

The what i dids and the why i dont have the issue anymore:
1) Siphon the sand bed directly above the algae. you will loose some sand, but you will pull algae mostly
2) relax on the water changes
3) check your ambient light. I was getting way to much light and didnt know it. I bought a cheap webcam and watched the tank. Turns out a window off in the distance was blasting my tank when i wasnt home and that was the area most the algae started in
4) When you siphon your water, run it through a filter sock back into the tank. Pull the algae, not the water.
5) relax on the water changes
6) increase cleaning crew. I switched from snails to crabs and have been much better off. I have some turbos and nec... i cant spell the one that goes in the sand bed but comes out to eat. But basic snails get eaten by crabs so i just bought a ton of crabs and let them work.

Manual removal works best and may get to the point of losing your mind, but when i stopped the aggressive water changes and did my daily manual removal through a sock to keep the water i saw significant progress. Now I will take your rock covered in algae, watch it get all green and strong and then turn colors and die off. I quit chasing numbers and adding "x" with packet "y" to get rid of it. Heck, i even gave up at one point. This is when things got better for me.

Once you know your water is solid, your food is being eaten, your lights are fighting you and your clean up crew is sufficient; the rest will follow. Dont add stuff and stop changing the tanks "happiness" by pulling everything out. Just a toothbrush zip tied to a hose to scrub your rock and a hose to siphon the sand and glass. The source of your problem should be easy to find, and then you just reduce with time and a little effort. Not money, not magic potions, not magic fish... time and effort. Then you will reach the point where all you do is add fresh water to your top off, feed and scrape your glass.

+1 couldn’t agree more

 

[saullman]

Good to hear its fully cycled. You may be surprised at how often that is not the case. If your flow is all top side for water agitation, you may be getting nutrients laying on your sand bed from feeding for fish waste that is not staying in the water column for export.



There is no right answer in my opinion on snails versus crabs. I love snails and preferred them, but i switched when i saw the last remaining crabs i had do some work on the algae. The next tank will most likely be a snail tank again.

So when i say relax, i say it vaguely because i didnt know where you were at. Try going to 20% monthly or even less. I was 10% a week, then 20%ish every two weeks and now I am less than that. With a smaller tank, WC's do more for nutrient export than they do for my system with a full sump and skimmer. That said, WC's also add nutrients back into the system. Some we can measure and some we can not. These nutrients caused my GHA to spike every time i did a WC, about 24 hours later. This is why i say to relax the schedule a bit so you have time to work the problem.

What i would do, for now, it take a 5 gal bucket and tie a filter sock to the top. Place a hose in it and syphon out the algae. Pour the water back into the system when done. Do this in place of your next two WC's. *watch your corals and water tests* with your smaller system (not being rude about it, just thinking about my days with the 75 and 29) you want to ensure you do not see a nitrate or ammonia spike. If you see them coming up, do a 3-5g water change. When you are ready to move to your rocks, do the same thing with the bucket, but add a toothbrush to the end of the water side and scrub your rocks. This doesnt have to be aggressive, just break up the algae.

Increase your snails. 7 snails for a 45 is on the much lighter end of the CUC spectrum. I would start by adding 10, a combo of trochus, turbin and margarita. See how they do and add more as desired. Be careful not to add to many in the beginning as they may starve while they hunt for food. If your tank is that old and established, maybe get an Urchin. I love mine and he does the best work.

For the sand bed, either redirect some flow to get lower in the water column, or add more nessarius snails, small conch or possible a star. Something needs to be down there eating left overs that is feeding the algae.

I will try what you said about the WC's and I will look into beefing up my CUC. I would like to try an urchin again. I got one a while ago and he was dead within 2-3 days. Same thing with a starfish. They both died within a few days of buying them. Not sure if it was my tank parameters at the time or maybe I didn't acclimate them correctly so I have been very hesitant to try them again. Nothing worse then the feeling of wasting money.

What kind of urchin or star should I be looking at?

 

[saintsreturn]

I will try what you said about the WC's and I will look into beefing up my CUC. I would like to try an urchin again. I got one a while ago and he was dead within 2-3 days. Same thing with a starfish. They both died within a few days of buying them. Not sure if it was my tank parameters at the time or maybe I didn't acclimate them correctly so I have been very hesitant to try them again. Nothing worse then the feeling of wasting money.

What kind of urchin or star should I be looking at?

I wish you better luck this time! I lost a couple of each over the years and hated it every time. What i found with Urchins is they dont like to be moved and the need a heavily established tank. I tried to save mine when i moved from my 75 to 110. I thought i was good with the water, sand and rock all moving over too, but he didnt make it. You can supplement them with seaweed strapped to a rock, but they need to find it. I am a huge fan of tuxedo urchins. They have so many colors and dont poke things. That said, they will collect and carry things and that annoys some people. Not me though.

I buy the cheapo sand sifting stars. I love them and as along as the sand bed is large and they have room to move around, i havent had an issue. mine just died a month or so ago, but my sand is sparse due to way to much rock at the moment. Working on fixing that before i try again.